3. Euro Car Parks - Overstayed max time - Interchange Retail Park, Bedford
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Euro Car Parks - Overstayed max time - Interchange Retail Park, Bedford
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Hello you lovely bunch.

I received the following after the driver misunderstood the restrictions for this car park. It has one of those overnight rules where you can only stay for a matter of minutes. The confusion arose as the car park on one side of the retail park has a 30 min restriction and the other (where this alleged contravention occurred) must be less than that (10/15 presumably, I live an hour away and the signs are not on street view).

The notice also arrived quite late, the contravention occurred on 1st May and they didn't issue it until 10th May but it didn't arrive until 21st May which leaves only 3 days to pay the reduced rate. Is this a possible defence? I've been the registered keeper for 5 years.

Thank you in advance!



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Re: Euro Car Parks - Overstayed max time - Interchange Retail Park, Bedford
« Reply #1 on: »
With regards to dates, the NtK complies with section 9(5). It is dated Friday 10/05/2024. It requires two working days to be “deemed” as “given”. Therefore, irrespective of the actual date you received it, it was “given” on Tuesday 14th May, one day before the deadline. Unless you can prove it was received after that date, that argument has no legs.

Do not despair. The NtK fails the strict requirements of PoFA 9(2)(e)(i) to invite the keeper to pay the charge. So, no revealing the identity of the driver. Any appeal is made only as the keeper. They have no idea who the driver is unless you tell them, inadvertently or otherwise.

There are always issues with ECP signs. They have lost at POPLA many times over their poor signage as long as this is clearly highlighted to the assessor with identification of which part of the BPA CoP they fail.

Can you get some photos of the signs at the location with a general overview of the different sections of the car park that you say have different terms?
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Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
Re: Euro Car Parks - Overstayed max time - Interchange Retail Park, Bedford
« Reply #2 on: »
That sounds promising!

I believe the other side is managed by a different company (UKPC off the top of my head) but I’ll head over this evening and get some snaps of both and post them here.
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Re: Euro Car Parks - Overstayed max time - Interchange Retail Park, Bedford
« Reply #3 on: »
Got some pictures,

This is from the car park in which the driver parked:


These signs were also at the entrance to that car park:


This is the sign for the other car park in the same complex less than 100 meters away (30 mins allowed):
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Re: Euro Car Parks - Overstayed max time - Interchange Retail Park, Bedford
« Reply #4 on: »
Ten minutes in both car parks after 9pm which the signs you posted  clearly show.

GSV is available all through the car park.

Were you buying fast food at one of the outlets?
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Re: Euro Car Parks - Overstayed max time - Interchange Retail Park, Bedford
« Reply #5 on: »
The driver did and has a time stamped transaction.

However the Burger King where they went is not in that car park and has its own smaller car park across the road (which was full, hence them going into this one). So I doubt Burger King would have the ability to cancel a ticket?
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Re: Euro Car Parks - Overstayed max time - Interchange Retail Park, Bedford
« Reply #6 on: »
Quote from: gizmobob123 on May 27, 2024, 02:25:07 pm
The driver did and has a time stamped transaction.

However the Burger King where they went is not in that car park and has its own smaller car park across the road (which was full, hence them going into this one). So I doubt Burger King would have the ability to cancel a ticket?

That's my local retail park and I suspected that was the case.    The 10 minute limit after 9 is to restrict anti-social behaviour.  Unfortunately the fast food outlets' own car parks tend to fill so customers then use the main car parks without reading the T&Cs which leadsto your type of situation.
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Re: Euro Car Parks - Overstayed max time - Interchange Retail Park, Bedford
« Reply #7 on: »
Bump

I need to get my first appeal in, what should I base my appeal on? Is the signage adequate?

Thanks
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Re: Euro Car Parks - Overstayed max time - Interchange Retail Park, Bedford
« Reply #8 on: »
Quote from: gizmobob123 on May 31, 2024, 10:36:40 am
Bump

I need to get my first appeal in, what should I base my appeal on? Is the signage adequate?

Thanks

Where were you parked? How did you get into the main car park from Burger King?  You cannot enter the main car park from the "BK" roundabout but have to drive all the way up the "new" road to enter at the top end. (GSV is 2018 and new road entrance since then) Plenty of signs throughout the car park but I don't know how many refer to the 10 minute after 9 restriction.

https://tinyurl.com/42t2ymjd
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Re: Euro Car Parks - Overstayed max time - Interchange Retail Park, Bedford
« Reply #9 on: »
The driver didn’t park in the main car park at all.

The ticket is from the smaller car park opposite Burger King for the range and dreams.
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Re: Euro Car Parks - Overstayed max time - Interchange Retail Park, Bedford
« Reply #10 on: »
Where were you parked? How did you get into the main car park from Burger King?

@baroudeur, I know what you mean but hopefully, 'where was your car parked..how did the driver get'...covers the issues.!!

Anyway, as regards the breach ..., do you know what retail outlets are served by the ECP-controlled car park [superseded by the OP's last point] and when do they close on Wednesdays?

I ask because the car park is for 'Customers Only' and if the shop(s) are closed then there should be no time permitted and 'customers only' and '10 minutes' are mutually exclusive and as the PCN doesn't state which applies then it does not clearly state 'the circumstances in which the requirement to pay them [the parking charges] arose'.
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Re: Euro Car Parks - Overstayed max time - Interchange Retail Park, Bedford
« Reply #11 on: »
Google suggests dreams and the range are the only 2 outlets trading from there, both close at 8pm on Wednesdays
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Re: Euro Car Parks - Overstayed max time - Interchange Retail Park, Bedford
« Reply #12 on: »
Quote from: H C Andersen on May 31, 2024, 08:53:30 pm
Where were you parked? How did you get into the main car park from Burger King?

@baroudeur, I know what you mean but hopefully, 'where was your car parked..how did the driver get'...covers the issues.!!

Anyway, as regards the breach ..., do you know what retail outlets are served by the ECP-controlled car park [superseded by the OP's last point] and when do they close on Wednesdays?

I ask because the car park is for 'Customers Only' and if the shop(s) are closed then there should be no time permitted and 'customers only' and '10 minutes' are mutually exclusive and as the PCN doesn't state which applies then it does not clearly state 'the circumstances in which the requirement to pay them [the parking charges] arose'.

The Range and Dreams car park is locked shut at 10pm and afaik doesn't have a 10 minute restriction after 9. So, not sure which car park the op was in I asked "why were you parked and how did you get there". Entry to the main car park should be ONLY via the new road although entry via the exit at the BK roundabout is possible at that time of night

Edit:  There is no Wednesday closing so not sure why you raised it. BK and KFC have their own carks separate from the main and Range car parks.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2024, 11:36:50 am by baroudeur »
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Re: Euro Car Parks - Overstayed max time - Interchange Retail Park, Bedford
« Reply #13 on: »
I think HC Andersen was referring to you assuming who the driver was, despite the OP deliberately (and correctly) not sharing that information.
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Re: Euro Car Parks - Overstayed max time - Interchange Retail Park, Bedford
« Reply #14 on: »
Quote from: baroudeur on June 01, 2024, 11:32:00 am
Quote from: H C Andersen on May 31, 2024, 08:53:30 pm
Where were you parked? How did you get into the main car park from Burger King?

@baroudeur, I know what you mean but hopefully, 'where was your car parked..how did the driver get'...covers the issues.!!

Anyway, as regards the breach ..., do you know what retail outlets are served by the ECP-controlled car park [superseded by the OP's last point] and when do they close on Wednesdays?

I ask because the car park is for 'Customers Only' and if the shop(s) are closed then there should be no time permitted and 'customers only' and '10 minutes' are mutually exclusive and as the PCN doesn't state which applies then it does not clearly state 'the circumstances in which the requirement to pay them [the parking charges] arose'.

The Range and Dreams car park is locked shut at 10pm and afaik doesn't have a 10 minute restriction after 9. So, not sure which car park the op was in I asked "why were you parked and how did you get there". Entry to the main car park should be ONLY via the new road although entry via the exit at the BK roundabout is possible at that time of night

Edit:  There is no Wednesday closing so not sure why you raised it. BK and KFC have their own carks separate from the main and Range car parks.

It must have changed since you were last there.

If you look at the pictures I took of the signage you can see Dreams and KFC in the background.

The driver has assured me that they didn’t cut any locks to get in there nor were they locked in afterwards.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2024, 11:49:21 am by gizmobob123 »
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