3. Double yellow line parking
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Double yellow line parking
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Hi, I'm new to the forum and I'm looking for advice/help please.

I may or may not  ;) have stopped on double yellow lines while dropping a friend off at the train station. I got the PCN through the post and sent an email asking for evidence the same day (9/07/24) and today I got a PDF from the company with these pictures. I wanted to appeal on the grounds there were so signs (atleast I didn't see any) and the fact the pictures they sent could have been taken by anyone and edited. Should they not be taken by a camera that date/time stamps rather than edited on? The PCN stated that a warden operated camera system was used. The pictures are 31 seconds apart.

Can I appeal this? What do I say? The company in question seems fishy, if I look on BPA there are multiple different names they trade under, some debt collectors, some not. Some can issue tickets and others can't that includes the 'creditors' who are also on BPA. In my email I asked for proof of signage, but they didn't send any are the double yellow lines enough?

Pictures are linked as I was struggling to add attachments



https://imgur.com/a/McsNaxe
Charlie
« Last Edit: July 23, 2024, 06:55:01 pm by Charlie9327 »
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Re: Double yellow line parking
« Reply #1 on: »
Meh! You appeal as the keeper. No blabbing the drivers identity. They do not know who the driver is. They only know that you are the registered keeper. They have not issued an NtK that complies with PoFA and so cannot transfer the liability for the charge from the unknown driver to the known keeper.

Use this wording for the appeal (also known as the "go sit on sharp stick and rotate" protocol) and make sure you don't tick any boxes that says you, the known keeper were the unknown driver.

I appeal as keeper. I am not obliged to identify the driver and I decline to do so. You are unable to transfer the driver’s liability (if any) to me because you have not relied on the provisions of Schedule 4 to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) to be able to hold the keeper liable for the charge. Furthermore, it is now too late for you to deliver a PoFA-compliant notice to keeper.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. PCS have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN. 

Easy peasy.
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Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
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Re: Double yellow line parking
« Reply #2 on: »
The above approach should do the trick, but as an aside, "No parking at any time" suggests that the signage in question is forbidding, and unable to create a contract anyway, although we'd need to see any signage at the site to confirm.
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Re: Double yellow line parking
« Reply #3 on: »
Thank you both for a quick response, I'll send this via their appeal page. If they decide to go further hopefully they'll show me the road signs.
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Re: Double yellow line parking
« Reply #4 on: »
It's Private land, so you are not looking for road signs. Merely the terms and conditions.

It's a bit odd that the road naming sign looks to me like an authority one. It's far from obvious it's Private land. Though the paving is a modest clue.

Province Dr
https://maps.app.goo.gl/oSNfype9AvRjwYmg8?g_st=ac

The sign, which they will claim was blindingly obvious and sufficient is above. Though GSV is a bit old so may not be current.

A driver parking as this one did may not even have gone that far.

-----
From the Aug 22  view it looks as though the driver was parked just before a barrier which is lowered in a GSV photograph and opposite a small no parking sign on a building wall (which is not offering any contract and is no more than a request anyway).

The woeful signage etc may become relevant later.

From: 46 Surrey Quays Rd
https://maps.app.goo.gl/AxqWBoJG8bHR7eSy9?g_st=ac
« Last Edit: July 24, 2024, 05:59:46 am by slapdash »
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Re: Double yellow line parking
« Reply #5 on: »
Have a read of the NtK and look for all the BPA Code of Practice (CoP) and CRA 2015 breaches.

The NtK is for £60. £60 is noted in bold and is the amount outstanding. However, in tiny print it says that £100 is due if £60 isn’t paid.

This is typical of ex-clamper thugs on the scam. When they reject the appeal (they will), POPLA should see them off and if they don’t, there is no court that would agree that any contract can have been formed.

If I lived locally, I’d drive there myself and get my own PCN and let them try to take me to court and waste their money on the process. I wouldn’t bother with any appeals. I’d ignore everything except an N1SDT claim form and then I’d have them over a barrel.
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Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
Re: Double yellow line parking
« Reply #6 on: »
Quote from: slapdash on July 24, 2024, 01:04:33 am
It's Private land, so you are not looking for road signs. Merely the terms and conditions.

It's a bit odd that the road naming sign looks to me like an authority one. It's far from obvious it's Private land. Though the paving is a modest clue.

Province Dr
https://maps.app.goo.gl/oSNfype9AvRjwYmg8?g_st=ac
It's definitely an LA sign, the change in paving colour and barrier parts (but no barrier on GSV) suggest it's private from that point on.

This view seems to show the only parking sign, no entrance sign as required by the CoP at that time. https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4988645,-0.0489851,3a,75y,277.83h,68.5t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sGPcgCDgHKD5WoaBx_-eBqQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DGPcgCDgHKD5WoaBx_-eBqQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D277.8306317661052%26pitch%3D21.50423685921689%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu
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There are motorists who have been scammed and those who are yet to be scammed!
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  3. Double yellow line parking