Author Topic: CSPM Merrywalks park GL5 (Onsite without a valid parking session)  (Read 3540 times)

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NTK received by LTD company. Vehicle registered to the company. Driver says that signage said to use an APP to pay for parking but at each attempt there was a message saying location not recognised.
The notice is dated 14/05 as was the envelope but arrived at the LTD company address on 10/06.
GSV


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« Last Edit: June 15, 2025, 11:11:30 am by Foxy01 »

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Re: CSPM Merrywalks park GL5 (Onsite without a valid parking session)
« Reply #1 on: »
GSV is useless as the images are over 6 years old. What do the signs say now?

The question has to be asked... if the driver was unable to make payment, for whatever reason, why did they remain on site? You have to look at the legal points that will be raised should this ever escalate to litigation. A judge is likely to consider whether the driver had the option to leave. If they did, but chose to stay despite being unable to pay, the judge may find that the driver accepted the terms of parking by conduct. In other words, even if the payment system was not working, the driver still made a choice to remain, and that may be enough in the court's view to form a contract. That is the risk.

However, the counterargument is that no contract can be formed if the terms could not be accepted. If the operator failed to provide a working means of payment, then it was impossible for the driver to comply with the core term of the contract. That raises the possibility of a frustrated contract or that no valid agreement was formed at all. It would then fall on the operator to prove that the driver had a reasonable opportunity to accept the terms and pay, but chose not to.

So the key issue a court would need to consider is whether the driver had the ability to accept the contract but didn’t, or whether the operator’s system failed and made acceptance impossible. This distinction is crucial to determining liability.

Another point is that the operator has explicitly chosen to rely on paragraph 8 of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, as quoted in the Notice to Keeper (NtK). Paragraph 8 applies only where a Notice to Driver (NtD) has been served under paragraph 7. In that case, the operator is prohibited from issuing an NtK before 28 days have elapsed from the date of the alleged contravention.

This NtK is dated just five days after the parking event. Therefore, if an NtD was served, then this Notice to Keeper has been issued too early and is not compliant with the requirements of paragraph 8. As such, the operator cannot rely on PoFA to hold the registered keeper liable.

If no Notice to Driver was served, then paragraph 8 does not apply and the operator has cited the wrong statutory provision. Either way, the operator has failed to comply with the conditions of Schedule 4 and keeper liability does not apply.

For now, you only appeal as the Keeper of the vehicle. Do not point out the actual PoFA failure. Just use the following for the appeal, which will be rejected but you will then be able to ambush them at POPLA with the actual failure:

Quote
We are the Registered Keeper of the vehicle and we dispute your 'parking charge'. We deny any liability or contractual agreement and we will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the Keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. CSPM has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

A company Keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. CSPM have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: CSPM Merrywalks park GL5 (Onsite without a valid parking session)
« Reply #2 on: »
Thank you, I will get some up to date pictures of signage. Appeal submitted (albeit out of time according to CSPM's terms).

Re: CSPM Merrywalks park GL5 (Onsite without a valid parking session)
« Reply #3 on: »
How late has the appeal been sent? They may say 28 days from the date of issue. However, the PPSCoP actually says 28 days from receipt, which under the Interpretation Act 1978 and their own CoP, that would be two working days after the date the notice was posted.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: CSPM Merrywalks park GL5 (Onsite without a valid parking session)
« Reply #4 on: »
Notice dated 14/05. Deemed delivered 16/05 (however not received until 10/06), appeal sent by email today 16/06.

Re: CSPM Merrywalks park GL5 (Onsite without a valid parking session)
« Reply #5 on: »
Rejection received today. Will now start a POPLA appeal. I will post a draft on here before sending.

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Re: CSPM Merrywalks park GL5 (Onsite without a valid parking session)
« Reply #6 on: »
Don't rush it as you have until 2nd August to submit your POPLA appeal.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: CSPM Merrywalks park GL5 (Onsite without a valid parking session)
« Reply #7 on: »
Should the POPLA appeal reference the early issue of the NTK (despite there being no NTD) and allow the operator to say that they didn't issue a NTD or should the lack of an NTD be raised in the appeal?
I will upload the pictures of signage later. Suffice to say difficult to read and no illumination in the car park.

Re: CSPM Merrywalks park GL5 (Onsite without a valid parking session)
« Reply #8 on: »
You could try to cover both possibilities, explaining how either scenario would mean a lack of PoFA compliance. You can state that when the driver returned to the vehicle no NtD was affixed to the windscreen, but then the NtK refers to paragraph 8 of PoFA, applicable only in cases where an NtD has been issued. There are therefore two feasible scenarios:

  • A notice to driver was issued, but had fallen off/was removed before the driver returned to the vehicle - if this scenario is true, the subsequent notice to keeper was issued too soon, as per the timescales outlined in PoFA
  • A notice to driver was not issued - if this scenario is true, CSPM's references to paragraph 8 of PoFA in their notice to keeper are incorrect, and they are seeking to rely on the wrong statutory provision in their attempts to recover the charge from the keeper

By covering all possibilities and explaining how either one undermines their case, you potentially make it more difficult for CSPM to try and explain away to the assessor.

Re: CSPM Merrywalks park GL5 (Onsite without a valid parking session)
« Reply #9 on: »
Signage onsite:


Entrance:




Location of terms and conditions:



Terms and conditions:



Terms and conditions:





Entrance signage has no Ringo location on it. The terms and condition are high up ad too small to read. Non of the signs are illuminated and the car park is naturally dark due to being on the North side of a railway viaduct.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2025, 04:16:13 pm by Foxy01 »

Re: CSPM Merrywalks park GL5 (Onsite without a valid parking session)
« Reply #10 on: »
Don't rush it as you have until 2nd August to submit your POPLA appeal.
Submitted today. Will update when I get a response.

Re: CSPM Merrywalks park GL5 (Onsite without a valid parking session)
« Reply #11 on: »
You were supposed to show us what you intended to send to POPLA before actually sending it so that we could advise further.

What exactly did you put in your POPLA appeal?
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: CSPM Merrywalks park GL5 (Onsite without a valid parking session)
« Reply #12 on: »
Due to work commitments I left it too late. Attached is what I put in the POPLA appeal. I appreciate the help offered on here.

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Re: CSPM Merrywalks park GL5 (Onsite without a valid parking session)
« Reply #13 on: »
Should be OK on point 1 only. As long as the assessor understands that they are relying on paragraph 8 of PoFA but have not complied with the requirements as they have issued the NtK too early.

When they send their operator evidence, come back and host it on Google Drive (suitably redacted of your personal info) and make it 'public' and we can see how to respond to that. You will only have 7 days to respond to the operators evidence, so you will need to find time to show it to us.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: CSPM Merrywalks park GL5 (Onsite without a valid parking session)
« Reply #14 on: »
Company has today received a debt recovery letter from DRP. This is dated 01/08/25 prior to the expiry of the appeal period to POPLA.