Author Topic: Cambridge North NCP Car Park - 2x Final Reminders just received without Initial NtK PCNs!  (Read 1284 times)

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Sorry for the long post here all, but this is my second new thread on the same topic!

Urgent advice and help needed please regarding two Final Reminders received last week from NCP as the registered keeper for alleged contraventions on land under statutory control (Railway ByLaws- Cambridge North Station) without having received any initial PCN NtK's!

As per previous threads the land is not 'relevant land' and the contraventions were months ago in March/April. I can upload a redacted copy of one Final Reminders here if needed - as the discounted period has passed there is no option to appeal nor indeed any details of how to lodge a Complaint to dispute the validity of the PCN NtK!!!

Following my first thread in March ("Cambridge North NCP Car Park - 2x PCNs") I received guidance that resulted in NCP cancelling the PCNs on this site. As noted by @b789 at the time, "automated dispatch errors" have happened before affecting this car park; in March NCP issued this "apology" for delays in issuing PCNs:

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National Car Parks Ltd. have identified an issue with the automated despatch of the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) letters with the PCN reference beginning with ‘GA’.  This has resulted in the delay in the despatch of the letters informing customers of the contravention. Parking Charge Notices offer a period where a customer can settle the matter at a discounted rate (14 days from receipt of the letter). The issue has led to a number of letters arriving with the customer with the discounted offer period either already expired or expiring within a few days from receipt of the letter.

NCP would like to apologise for the confusion this has caused. We will ensure that all of our customers who have been impacted are given the opportunity to settle that matter or appeal as they feel appropriate. NCP will be writing to every customer that has had a notification issued over the last 4 weeks. We will be extending the discounted period for 3 weeks as from the date of the new letter.

NCP will be monitoring the situation closely and will be putting additional safe guards in place to rectify this one off issue.

Once again we would like to apologise for the upset that this has caused.

Is this "automated despatch" issue happening again???  >:(

In terms of how best to respond, given I cannot submit an appeal, and as per previous guidance on this forum from @b789 and others, is this approach OK? Any help much appreciated!!

1. Request a Subject Access Request - asking for a copy of all correspondence on me as registered keeper and on the car to see the original PCN NtK's
2. Submit a Complaint to dispute the validity of the PCN - could someone confirm how this is best done as it is not clear on the Final Reminder at all???? Via the 'Contact Us' webform on the NCP Help section of their website? My suggested wording reads as follow -  is this adequate?:

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I am the registered keeper of XXX and advise you to consider this correspondence as an official complaint, not an appeal and, as such, requires a response within the required timescale that can be escalated to the BPA if necessary.
 
As registered keeper of XXX, I did not receive any initial letters before two Notice to Keeper Final Reminder letters (your refs XXX, XXX) were received on Friday, the 2nd August 2024. I have therefore submitted a Subject Access Request to receive a copy of the original PCN Notice to Keeper letters to which I await a response.
 
Furthermore, as your allegation of a breach of terms occurred on land subject to statutory control by bylaws (Cambridge North – Main Car Park), it is not relevant land for the purposes of the Schedule 4 to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) and therefore there can be no keeper liability.
 
NCP cannot hold a registered keeper liable. As a matter of fact and law, NCP (as a longstanding BPA Parking operator) will be well aware that they cannot use the PoFA provisions to hold a keeper liable because Cambridge North Station car park, is not 'relevant land'. If Greater Anglia wanted to hold owners or keepers liable under Railway Bylaws, that would be within the landowner's gift and another matter entirely. However, not only is that not pleaded, it is also not legally possible because NCP is not the station owner and your 'parking charge' is not and never attempts to be a penalty. It is created for NCP’s own profit (as opposed to a bylaws penalty that goes to the public purse) and NCP has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only. The registered keeper cannot be presumed to have been the driver nor pursued as such under an interpretation of the law of agency.
 
As per the BPA CoP paragraph 23.8, please reissue the original NtK at which point I will submit an appeal. If rejected, you will be required to provide me with a POPLA code where an appeal by the keeper will be upheld.
 
I await your response.

Thanks everyone, appreciate the feedback/help as this is OUTRAGEOUS!!!  >:(  >:(  >:(
« Last Edit: August 05, 2024, 04:45:04 pm by BB4 »

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Redacted copy uploaded here
« Last Edit: August 05, 2024, 04:55:15 pm by BB4 »

What you have written is good. Just send a separate one asa complaint for each PCN. NCP will usually cancel once they realise you are aware of the PoFA requirements to hold you liable.

I wouldn't bother with the SAR unless this ever escalated to court, which is highly unlikely.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Thanks @b789 for the feedback.

Have submitted two separate Complaints for each PCN as advised, using the 'Contact Us' form on the NCP Help section of their website.

Is this the correct way to submit a Complaint? I have only received one automated acknowledgement back from NCP for both submissions stating I will get a response back in 48hrs.

When should I expect to receive a response and acknowledgement of the two separate complaints?

Given the 14 day clock for the Final Reminder is ticking, should I use the chat or call them to ensure they are acknowledged (NCP "...are unable to receive postal correspondence at this time")? Their website states that I should expect to "...be advised of a URN (‘unique reference number’) that can be used to identify progress of their complaint. Thereafter, the complaint will be escalated internally to the appropriate team for review and actioning."

Will let you know what comes back and thanks for the help so far!

Do not try and contact them further, especially by phone. I you use a "chat" facility, make sure that you can get a transcript of the chat.

As long as you have had an acknowledgement that your submissions have been received, that is enough. Don't try and overthink it. They will respond.

The 14 day "final reminder" warning means nothing.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2024, 01:12:04 pm by b789 »
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Hi @b789

It's been more than 48hours since I submitted two Complaints via the Contact Us webform....

However to your point I only received an automated response to one of them. I even re-submitted the second again as no more automated emails were received, still nothing!

Dealing with the NCP 'machine' is most frustrating...don't want these final reminders to go any further given the circumstances and have zero confidence in them!!!

"NCP will aim to acknowledge a customer complaint within 14 days"....so despite the lack of assurance both complaints were received, presumably the best advice is to just wait? Or I could send another general enquiry to ask if they were received?

Thanks!


You have filed your complaints. If they don't respond within their required timescale, you report them to the BPA for breach of CoP 23.25 which states:

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A full response to a complaint must be provided by you within 28 days of its receipt unless exceptional circumstances apply, in which case the complainant must be kept informed by you.

They are also required to consider the complaints made as appeals also as per 23.23:

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Where you receive a complaint that you consider to be or include an appeal against the validity of a parking charge notice, you must also treat it as an appeal for the purposes of applying the timescales in Clause 23.8, and should inform the complainant as such unless and until it is clear that the complaint is not relevant to an appeal or the complainant informs you that they do not wish it to be so handled.

It might not be immediately apparent that a complaint served as such relates to one or more specific parking charge notices, possibly by way of a clarification that reveals that an appeal would be worthwhile, hence you are advised to record and handle complaints as appeals until they are found conclusively not to be so or patently refer to matters not relevant to the validity of a parking charge notice.

Also, they have 14 days in which to acknowledge receipt of the complaints as per 23.24:

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A complaint must be acknowledged by you within 14 days of its receipt unless exceptional circumstances apply, in which case the complainant must be kept informed by you.

So, sit back and wait for them to respond within the required deadlines.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2024, 10:55:22 am by b789 »
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Hi @b789 and everyone in the forum, I need some urgent guidance, please!

In early October, I followed the forum’s previous advice after receiving a Final Reminder letter about an incident dating back 4 months, just like last time. Yet again, I had not received any initial Notice to Keeper (NtK) beforehand.

I submitted a complaint via NCP's online "Contact Us" form on October 22nd, again, just as I did last time. Previously, the Final Reminders were both cancelled following this process.

However, this time I didn’t receive any acknowledgment or automated response, unlike before. I tried resubmitting on November 4th, using both my usual and an alternate email address, but still received no acknowledgment. The 14-day deadline for this second attempt at a complaint is fast approaching—Monday, November 18th.

To my frustration, I’ve now received a debt recovery letter with a 14-day deadline ending in one week! Every PCN so far has been cancelled (since Cambridge North isn’t relevant land and there’s no keeper liability). Still, I’ve had no acknowledgment of my complaints and never received an initial NtK.

I’m at a loss on how to proceed! Should I report this to the BPA? What should I do about the debt recovery letter? Is online chat worth trying, even though it was advised against last time?

Any help would be greatly appreciated - I’m baffled and frustrated by NCP’s lack of response!!

Thanks in advance!

If you've received no response to your complaint, then yes, complain to the BPA about their lack of response.

Debt collectors are powerless, and any deadlines they set meaningless. You can ignore debt collectors.

Thanks for the reply, much appreciated.

How should I approach the BPA? I've found their complaint form presumably that's the correct way. Wonder what the timelines might be and if I should let NCP know that I'm submitting a complaint to the BPA? Should I wait for the 18th Nov (as per my last post)?

On debt collectors I have read elsewhere on this forum before that letters can be ignored but I've certainly never received one before so this is new territory for me. Not very fair for me to receive one the first place, what happens next on this front with the BPA complaint? 

Sorry for all the questions but seems ridiculous to have gotten this far. :-\

They've already breached the Code of Practice by not responding.

With the BPA, the best bet is to approach it from the perspective of the Code of Practice, and their failure to comply with it. There's a link to the CoP in my signature underneath my post - refer to the relevant section, point out when you should have received a reply and point out that one has not been provided. Attach a screenshot of your complaint to NCP as evidence for completeness.

Thanks that makes sense.

The BPA form states they only deal with "exhausted complaints" and "if there has been a breach of our Code of Practice you must complain to our member first" - sounds silly but does that mean I now need to complain again today to NCP for not acknowledging my earlier complaints?

It also asks to upload a copy of the 'Complaint outcome' from the Operator far - I do have screenshots of the complaints regarding the Final Reminder letter submitted via the NCP website before. So I should attach those original complaint screenshots? And if I complain again today another screenshot? Bet I still don't get any NCP acknowledgement!

Are the relevant sections therefore CoP 23.25 (full response within 28 days), and in addition CoP 23.23 (consider complaints made as appeals), and 23.24 (within 14 days)?

Thank you for the help  :)

Also, should I refer to the nature of the original complaint - an initial Ntk was never received?