Author Topic: Alliance Parking PCN - Sea View Car Park, Polzeath  (Read 1740 times)

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Alliance Parking PCN - Sea View Car Park, Polzeath
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Alliance have sent VWFS notification of a Parking Offense (overstay) at a seaside car park in Polzeath. VWFS forwarded it to my partner, the lessee/keeper of the vehicle.

  • The photo shows the driver arriving at 15:40.
  • The driver booked a 2hr parking session on the JustPark app, which started at 15:46. (the mobile signal is not good there).
  • The JustPark session ended at 17:47.
  • The photo shows the driver inside leaving the car park at 17:48 (1 min overstay).

The keeper uploaded proof of JustPark booking to the Alliance Parking appeals (they just ignore it all presumably?), but in the appeal did not identify the driver, did not provide an address, and did not provide an email address. The keeper notified VWFS that this had been done.

The Alliance paperwork says that the car park is "Sea View Car Park" but the JustPark VAT receipt has Polzeath Beach Car Park (it also has a Cornwall County Council logo).

The "offense" took place on 29/7/2024. The PCN is dated 5/8/2024.

Has the Keeper dealt with this okay so far, or should more information be given to Alliance? Thanks.











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Re: Alliance Parking PCN - Sea View Car Park, Polzeath
« Reply #1 on: »
What exactly was submitted as the appeal, did you provide any name, and did you include a copy of the letter of authorisation? If you haven't provided an address or email address, how will Alliance inform you of the result of your appeal?

What you should have done is waited for them to issue a Notice to Hirer in your name, as the notice you've got in your possession is issued to VWFS and is therefore theirs to deal with, but of course what is done is done.

  • The photo shows the driver arriving at 15:40.
  • The driver booked a 2hr parking session on the JustPark app, which started at 15:46. (the mobile signal is not good there).
  • The JustPark session ended at 17:47.
  • The photo shows the driver inside leaving the car park at 17:48 (1 min overstay).
It's an 8 minute overstay (car was there for 2hr 8mins, and 2hrs was paid for), but this ought to still be within the relevant grace periods. To rule it out, have you checked that the correct car park, and correct vehicle reg were entered?
« Last Edit: September 06, 2024, 04:05:13 pm by DWMB2 »

Re: Alliance Parking PCN - Sea View Car Park, Polzeath
« Reply #2 on: »
Good call. Turns out that the driver paid for a session at the wrong car park! Bugger. Best to just pay at this point? It's just gone up to £170 unfortunately.

Re: Alliance Parking PCN - Sea View Car Park, Polzeath
« Reply #3 on: »
You need to immediately tell VWFS that no "offence" has been committed as Alliance Parking are not an "authority" of any sort and are unable to issue "fines" or "penalties". Explain to the that Alliance Parking are an unregulated private parking company and the PCN they issued is simply an "invoice" for an alleged breach of contract by the driver under civil law.

Point out, in no uncertain terms, that all they are required to do under PoFA 2012 is to do as follows, and there can be no liability on VWFS:

Quote
The specific provisions in the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) that address the transfer of liability from VWFS, the lease company (as the registered keeper) to the hirer are found in Schedule 4, Paragraph 13 and Paragraph 14. Here is a breakdown of where and how PoFA explains that a lease or hire company can avoid liability by providing the hirer's details and the required documents.

1. Schedule 4, Paragraph 13 – Transfer of liability when vehicle is hired

Paragraph 13 sets out the conditions under which a vehicle hire company (VWFS), as the registered keeper, can transfer liability to the hirer. It states that the creditor (Alliance Parking) cannot hold the vehicle hire company (VWFS) liable for the parking charge if:

The vehicle was hired to someone at the time of the parking incident, and

The hire company (VWFS) provides the name and address of the hirer and certain documents to the PPC (Alliance Parking) within 28 days of receiving the Notice to Keeper (NtK). This is key because it means that if VWFS follows these steps, they can transfer liability to the hirer.

2. Schedule 4, Paragraph 13(2) – Documents to be provided

Under Paragraph 13(2), the lease or hire company (VWFS) must, within the 28-day period:

Provide a statement signed by or on behalf of the hire company (VWFS) to the PPC (Alliance Parking), confirming that the vehicle was hired at the time of the parking incident.

Provide the name and address of the hirer.

Provide a copy of the hire agreement and the statement of liability signed by the hirer, confirming that the hirer accepted responsibility for parking charges during the hire period.

3. Schedule 4, Paragraph 14 – Notice to Hirer

Paragraph 14 outlines the next steps the PPC (Alliance Parking) must take if the lease company (VWFS) has provided the required information. If the lease company (VWFS) supplies the hirer's details and the relevant documents, the PPC (Alliance Parking) must then serve a Notice to Hirer (NtH) (equivalent to a Notice to Keeper) on the hirer. The PPC (Alliance Parking) must follow strict requirements when issuing this notice, including issuing it within a specific timeframe and including the correct wording.

4. Liability of the lease company (VWFS)

Under Paragraph 13(1), once the hire company (VWFS) provides the necessary details and documents to the PPC (Alliance Parking) within the required timeframe, the PPC (Alliance Parking) cannot hold the lease or hire company (VWFS) liable for the charge. The responsibility then passes to the hirer, and the PPC (Alliance Parking) must pursue the hirer directly.

Only if the hire company (VWFS) fails to provide these details within the 28-day period, the PPC (Alliance Parking)  could hold the lease (VWFS) company liable under PoFA.

Summary of Key Provisions:

Paragraph 13(2) explains what information and documents the lease company must provide to transfer liability to the hirer.

Paragraph 14 explains that once the lease company provides the hirer's details and documents, the PPC must serve a Notice to Hirer on the hirer.

Paragraph 13(1) makes clear that if the lease company provides the hirer's details and documents correctly, they cannot be held liable for the parking charge.

So, as the PCN you have forwarded to me is not a "fine" or a "penalty" issued by an "authority", therefore, no "offence" has been committed by the driver. Please be aware of the difference between what you have referred to an "offence" and a simple allegation of breach of contract by a private (unregulated) company:

Quote
Offence

An "offence" typically refers to a violation of the law, usually a 'criminal' or 'statutory' regulation. In the context of parking, an 'offence' might involve breaking a rule or regulation that has been set by a public 'authority', such as parking on double yellow lines, in a disabled bay without a permit, or violating other traffic laws. These are enforced by public bodies such as local councils or the police, and the 'penalties' are legally binding and enforceable by law. Committing an 'offence' could lead to criminal charges or 'fines' issued by these authorities.

Alleged Breach of Contract

In contrast, an "alleged breach of contract" in a private parking situation refers to a potential violation of the terms and conditions set by a private parking company (PPC) on private land. When a driver parks on private property, such as a supermarket or a shopping centre, they are often subject to the parking rules displayed on signs. By parking there, the driver is considered to have entered into a contract with the landowner or the PPC managing the parking area.

If the driver does not comply with these terms — such as by overstaying the time limit or failing to pay for parking — the PPC may issue a Parking Charge Notice (PCN). This PCN is not a 'fine' or a criminal 'penalty'; it is a demand for payment due to the alleged breach of the parking contract. The matter is 'civil', not 'criminal', and any dispute would typically be resolved through civil litigation in the small claims court.

So, please confirm that VWFS has transferred their liability as the registered keeper (RK) to me, the Hirer, in accordance with the requirements as set out in the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. Having transferred liability in accordance with PoFA, VWFS is no longer liable for the PCN and I will be dealing with it through the necessary process. Alliance Parking cannot later revert back to VWFS under any lawful circumstance, no matter what they may have written in their NtK.

Please confirm that the above has been understood and complied with and that no further action is necessary by VWFS with regard to this matter. Any failure to adhere to the requirements of PoFA by VWFS that results in any action by Alliance Parking cannot be charged back to me, as long as VWFSs liability was transferred as required by PoFA.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Alliance Parking PCN - Sea View Car Park, Polzeath
« Reply #4 on: »
VWFS can be a bit daft with their wordings, but do usually send the relevant transfer of liability, such that you receive a notice in your own name. But as said above, best to clarify that they have actually done this.

Re: Alliance Parking PCN - Sea View Car Park, Polzeath
« Reply #5 on: »
Good call. Turns out that the driver paid for a session at the wrong car park! Bugger. Best to just pay at this point? It's just gone up to £170 unfortunately.

Absolutely not! You don't have to pay a penny, as long as the driver has not been identified. Alliance Parking do not know who the driver is. They only know who the Hirer is. There is no legal obligation for the Hirer to identify the driver to an unregulated private parking company and you just decline to do so,

If Alliance Parking wish to hold the you, the Hirer, liable for the charge, they are required to issue a Notice to Hirer (NtH) and include with the NtH, the documents notified in PoFA paragraph 14. It is almost unheard of that any PPC manages to comply with the requirements of paragraph 14 because they all fail to provide copies of the documents as stipulated in PoFA.

By failing to fully comply with all the requirements of PoFA, they cannot transfer liability from the unknown driver to the Hirer. The only way they would know that the Hirer was also the driver is if the Hirer blabs it to them, inadvertently or otherwise. This is all backed up by persuasive case law. Alliance Parking, a bunch of ex-clamper thugs cannot try to avoid their responsibility by including this paragraph in their NtK:

Quote
We have opted out of the Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) between The BVRLA & The IPC. Hence, we will not process or respond to liability transfer requests that do not adhere to the applicable legislation. Therefore, we recommend that you settle the payment and pursue reimbursement for the Parking Charge from your customer.

As long as VWFS have adhered to the requirements in PoFA (the legislation) as explained earlier, Alliance Parking cannot go back to VWFS and any attempt to hold them liable would be unlawful. Likewise, as long as Alliance Parking have adhered to the requirements of PoFA, only then could they hold you liable for the charge as the Hirer.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2024, 05:01:56 pm by b789 »
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Alliance Parking PCN - Sea View Car Park, Polzeath
« Reply #6 on: »
Thank you for your insight above. So if I understand correctly - the Keeper should send that statement to VWFS, in order to prevent them providing Keeper details to Alliance?

VWFS stated in their letter that "we have given your details to... [Alliance Parking]", but the keeper has received nothing, so the presumption is they didn't actually provide them anything. When the Keeper submitted the electronic appeal, VWFS were notified out of courtesy more than anything, and VWFS replied with: "Hi XXXXX, This will need to be disputed directly with the issuing authority, once they accept your appeal please let us know.".

wrt to the contents of the Alliance appeal, this might be a balls up:

  • the Keeper doesn't know which of "Driver" or "Keeper" was chosen in the submitted appeal, because the Keeper doesn't have a copy.
  • the Keeper entered the name "J Smith" (ie. initial only), and two adults in the household share the initial.
  • the Keeper believes that no valid address or phone or email contact details were entered.

Re: Alliance Parking PCN - Sea View Car Park, Polzeath
« Reply #7 on: »
Thank you for your insight above. So if I understand correctly - the Keeper should send that statement to VWFS, in order to prevent them providing Keeper details to Alliance?

Errr, no. That is not what I have advised.

VWFS are the "keeper". You are the "Hirer". No one has mentioned the "driver". All three are separate legal entities. VWFS and Alliance Parking do not know the identity of the "driver". VWFS only know the identity of the "Hirer".

If VWFS have done the transfer of liability from them, the "keeper" to you, the "Hirer", then Alliance Parking will also know that you were the "Hirer". Unless you, the "Hirer" told them the name of the "driver", they also have no idea who the "driver" is.

As there is no legal obligation on you, the "Hirer" to identify who the "driver" was, and they are not allowed to infer or assume that the "Hirer" must also be the "driver", again covered by persuasive case law, then the only way Alliance Parking can pursue you as the "Hirer" is if all the requirements of PoFA 2012 have been fully complied with. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient.

So, all you need to do is tell VWFS that they are morons for calling a PCN a "penalty" or a "fine" or that any "offence" has been committed. Expose their intellectual malnourishment by highlighting the relevant law, namely paragraphs 13 and 14 of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. Here is a link to the relevant legislation you can provide for their delectation and education: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted

You should have a study of it too, in order to gain an understanding of how this all works.

Once you have pointed out the errors that VWFS have made in their assumption that a PCN is some form of "fine" or "penalty" for committing an "offence", you can explain that all they had to do for this PCN and any other PCN that they receive as an NtK from any of their many thousands of customers, is to transfer liability from themselves to the Hirer as proscribed in paragraph 13 of PoFA and it is no longer an issue for them.

The error you have made is appealing to Alliance Parking without having been given an NtH which means that Alliance Parking are within their rights to ignore whatever you appealed. As for copying in VWFS, well, that is about as useful as a poke in the arm with a sharp stick.

Explain to VWFS that as long as they have transferred liability for the invoice, they are no longer liable and you will be dealing with it.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2024, 05:51:50 pm by b789 »
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Alliance Parking PCN - Sea View Car Park, Polzeath
« Reply #8 on: »
Thanks for explaining and putting me right on the facts. I'll do that.