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Messages - fightinjustice

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1
People can usually work out who was driving, they are just reluctant to put the effort in due to prize that awaits.

How long ago was the offence? What time of day? Local or outside of the area?

The incident was on 2 September circa 6pm about 15 miles from where I live so outside my local area. 

Thanks very much @BertB

2
Thanks very much for your prompt replies.

The vehicle is used by several of us which is why we are not sure who was driving at the time.  That is why I was hoping they would have a photograph showing the driver.  If worse comes to worse, I'll have to state that I was driving and take the punishment myself.

Thanks again.

3
Hello all,

I'm an unfortunate recipient of an NIP claiming the vehicle was doing 36 mph in a 30 mph zone.

As I am not sure who was driving and the photographs on the website are low resolution (the writing showing the speed and other details is not legible), I was planning to request photos to identify the driver and higher resolution photos of the incident.

The road is a dual carriageway with a speed limit of 40mph which drops down to 30 mph - the sign is some 200m away from where the photo was taken.  The speed limit sign is right by a parking bay and can be fully or partially obscured by a parked van.  Additionally, if the car is in the inside lane with a lorry or van on the outside lane, the speed sign in the middle of the carriageway could easily be missed.  I have attached a screenshot from google maps illustrating this here https://ibb.co/RWP5H0z.

I would be grateful for any advice as to any additional material I should request before I respond to the NIP and if the signage is an issue.  Are the cameras assumed to be flawless as the FAQ with the notice states they do not have to provide a callibration certificate.

Many thanks in advance!


4
I heard back from GroupNexus confirming they have received the payment and no further action will be taken.  It's annoying I caved in but the cost of preparing an appeal was IMHO far more than the £20 they asked for.

I would like to thank @b789 & @DWMB2 for their invaluable support and advice - they have certainly earned a lot of good karma!

5
Brilliant.  In that case, I definitely am as the appeal rejection was sent by email on 27 June and states I have 28 days, i.e. 25 July. 

I've enclosed the letter I received which appears to be the same as the NtK.  It beggars belief that they expect admin charges for payments by cheque as well!

Thanks again!

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

6
Thank you @b789

An appeal to POPLA must be made within 28 days of the date of this letter.

Their original appeal rejection on 27 June stated the above which means I have until Friday 25 July to appeal to POPLA?  I only mention this because you had said it would cost them and in case there's a chance it is thrown out at this stage!

7
Come back when you receive the appeal rejection and we will provide an IAS appeal, which will also be rejected, but will cost them, and then we can advise on how you proceed after that.
Since a charge has now been issued increasing the amount to £170, should I proceed with the IAS appeal please?  Should this include just the POFA point or justification why the signs are designed not be seen by drivers?
Thanks very much.

8
Hello Experts.  just wondering if you have any thoughts/suggestions on how I should proceed please?  Thanks in advance!

9
Sorry @DWMB2 I should have mentioned that it hasn't gone through my account yet.  I do have a certificate of posting and a photo of the envelope with the barcoded stamp on so I did my bit!

10
Hello Experts,

I finally caved in and sent the payment as a nuisance payment via cheque (and have proof of postage) - I wasn't prepared to pay additional ripoff charges to use their online payment (which contravenes the laws on charging customers for card usage?).
Thought the matter was closed but have now received a new charge for £170 with a statement that it is too late to appeal and asking for payment in 7 days!

I was thinking of sending them the following reply:
Quote
I am shocked to receive your charge notice.  In spite of the fact that I have never accepted the egregious charge as moral or legal, I decided to make the payment of £20 via cheque as a nuisance payment as per your last email.  This was sent to you on 9 July so well before the payment due date.
Please be advised that I will not be bullied into making undue, extortionate and unfair demands.
Yours faithfully

I would be grateful for your input and suggested further action.  Since they extended the internal appeal date by 2 weeks, doesn't that extend the POPLA appeal date as well?  Or should I just wait for the summons?
Thanks in advance

11
Many thanks for your prompt response @DWMB2

Out of interest, what would you do if they reject that offer?
I'm not sure - might end up being a coin toss.  To illustrate my connundrum, I discussed it with 2 friends in the pub and one said just get rid of it at the reduced rate to save time and the other (who has ignored an unfair charge which is now in the small claims court) said I should refuse to pay the unfair charge and no one is going to take me to court over £20!

Thank you for your suggestion which I will incorporate in my reply.  Should I also mention that I was not even in the country so obviously not the driver?

12
Thank you @b789 - considerable food for thought.
I wouldn't want to trouble you and the other kind experts who have helped for an effort that is greater than a charge to make it go away.  I agree with you that the charge is unfair so I should fight it. 
I thought I'd go halfway and drafted the following reply to try and get them to see sense (please don't laugh!).  May I trouble you for your opinion please?

Quote
Dear Sir/Madam,

I acknowledge receipt of your correspondence.

I would point out that you have not considered the following points:

    Your statement that "Clear signs at the entrance of this site and throughout inform drivers that the maximum stay at this site is 3 hours..." is not correct as
        There are no signs where the vehicle was parked (or within 8 parking spaces) nor at the entrance to the store visited. 
        The sign at the entrance to the site is easily obsured by vehicles leaving the site
        The print on the signs that do exist is so small that it is difficult to read without a zoom lens which makes it doubly difficult for elderly visitors
    it is unreasonable to expect any customer of a store spending several hundred Pounds would willfully ignore such signs.
    The helpline number 02074314001 is unmanned therefore causing more stress and anxiety

Therefore the charge is clearly unfair and unreasonable and I believe any court in England would agree with me.

Nevertheless, without any admission of liability or prejudice to my rights, I would consider making a payment of £10 purely as a nuisance payment in light of my age and difficulty/stress in dealing with the matter.

Thanks in advance!

13
Thanks @b789.  As you are way more experienced in this than I am, do you think it would be worth the effort of fighting it? 

When their email says it is their final stance on the matter, would it be worth pointing out the flaws in their signage as well as payment systems?

Thanks again.

14
Hello again,

I have now received the following reply:

Quote
Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your correspondence relating to your Parking Charge.

The Charge was issued and the signage is displayed in compliance with The Private Parking Sector Single Code of Practice and all relevant laws and regulations. Clear signs at the entrance of this site and throughout inform drivers that the maximum stay at this site is 3 hours between 8:00-22:00 with the option to extend with payment up to 5 hours. Please note that payment for parking is required outside of these times, and it is not possible to access any part of the premises without passing multiple signs.  In light of this, on this occasion, your representations have been carefully considered and rejected.

In accordance with Annex F of the Single Code of Practice, which states that “parking operators must recognise…mitigating circumstances warranting a reduction in the amount of the parking charge…where the vehicle would have been permitted…but the driver failed to enter their registration into a terminal/device”, on this occasion only we will accept the reduced amount of £20 in full settlement of this Charge to cover our costs in correctly issuing this Charge and we will hold the charge at this rate for 14 days from the date of this correspondence. If no payment is received within this period, and no further appeal to POPLA is made, the Charge will escalate and further costs may be added.


Please ensure that you comply with the Terms and Conditions on future visits to the site.

 

Please find below the payment options:

Online: www.groupnexus.co.uk/pcn

By Telephone: Credit/Debit cards via our automated payment line: 0844 371 8784

By Post: Cheques or Postal Orders to: PO Box 1750, Northampton, NN1 9PN

----------

You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure. This correspondence represents our final stance on the matter and we will therefore not enter into any further correspondence.


CORRESPONDENCE RECEIVED FOLLOWING THE REJECTION OF AN APPEAL WILL NOT CHANGE THE OUTCOME OR EXTEND THE DATE IN WHICH PAYMENT SHOULD BE MADE.

Although we have now rejected your appeal, you may still have recourse to appeal to Parking On Private Land Appeals (POPLA), an independent appeals service. An appeal to POPLA must be made within 28 days of the date of this letter.  POPLA will only consider cases on the grounds that the Parking Charge exceeded the appropriate amount, that the vehicle was not improperly parked or had been stolen, or that you were otherwise not liable for the Parking Charge.  To appeal to POPLA, please go to their website http://www.popla.co.uk and follow the instructions. If you would rather deal with this matter by post, please contact our Appeals Office and we will send you the necessary paperwork.

 

Your POPLA reference number is (please note this reference is for use only when appealing to POPLA): xxxxxxxxxxx

 

Please note that if your appeal does not relate to the above criteria or is rejected by POPLA for any reason, you will no longer qualify for payment at the reduced rate. POPLA will not consider any cases where payment has been made. You must pay the charge or appeal to POPLA, you cannot do both.

 

By law we are also required to inform you that Ombudsman Services (www.ombudsman-services.org/) provides an alternative dispute resolution service that would be competent to deal with your appeal.  However, we have not chosen to participate in their alternative dispute resolution service.  As such should you wish to appeal then you must do so to POPLA, as explained above.

Yours faithfully,
CP Plus Ltd

They have not referred to the driver (I wonder why)! 

They have brought up a new point not mentioned in their original reply about the signage being correct.  However, the driver informs me (and the dash cam shows) that it is definitely possible "to access any part of the premises without passing multiple signs" which is why the driver had no idea about the 3 hour limit.  Further, the writing on the signs are so small, the driver could not read them without the help of a camera!

I would be most interested in your thoughts please.  Many thanks in advance.

15
Quote
they're definitely not your chums.
Indeed  ;D !

Many thanks for your reply @b789, I'll make the modifications and send.

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