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Found this...


https://www.google.com/maps/@51.52089,-0.1955034,3a,75y,27.4h,79.7t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sTXQzL2lswIDHCW8VASCOmQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D10.299612302347839%26panoid%3DTXQzL2lswIDHCW8VASCOmQ%26yaw%3D27.40443371443549!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI2MDEyOC4wIKXMDSoKLDEwMDc5MjA3MUgBUAM%3D

Thanks for that. I know where this sign is. It is just about at the end of Alfred road. To the right of the entrance of an electronically gated car park at the bottom left of this map of "Brindley Estate":

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/728959897#map=18/51.521405/-0.194512.

There is an unobstructed road to the right of Polesworth house, which has no CPM signs, an unobstructed road to the left of Polesworth house, which also has no CPM signs, and an unobstructed road to the right of Oversley house, which has no CPM signs.

There is no way the driver could have entered the gated car park at the end of Alfred road without a fob.

It is not clear from the photo which car park the PCN is allocated for. This is important because there is no way the driver could have read any terms if they went into any of the accessible car parks.

Should the reply form be responded to with these details:

Filling box D stating that I (the keeper) never entered into any contract as no contract terms were displayed, and the Keeper cannot be liable because the PCN is not PoFA compliant.

Should I also fill box I asking for:
-a copy of the written contract for the debt and a full statement of the account
-a copy of the notice of assignment of the debt
-confirmation of where they think the car was parked by way of a map
-confirmation of where their camera is by way of map
-proof they have jurisdiction in that area
-confirmation of clearly displayed CPM terms in that area


Thanks in advance.

Thanks for your response.

The photo of the sign you have showed us does not appear to be a sign belonging to CPM. How the car park area is delineated could be important.

One possibility I can think of, is that the car park is for residents of the block it is adjacent to, but only if they register their details with Westminster City Council (given the "vehicle not registered" comment on the PCN). The bays do not seem to be allocated to individual flats and are all unmarked except for the one disabled bay stating for "LL14".

The GSV views are too old to be of any value. We would need to see the current signage, preferably under the same lighting conditions at the time of the alleged contravention.

I agree the GSV views are 3 years old but I promise that it accurately reflects what is shown today. I can't get any photos of that area until mid June.

For any contract to have been made, there must have been an entrance sign that clearly informs the driver that they are entering private land and that parking terms and conditions apply. Once on the land, there must be sufficient signs that adequately bring to the attention of the driver what the terms of parking are.

The only sign mentioned on entrance is the one provided in the opening post, and matches the GSV views.

Did you park in a bay marked as for the use of people with a disability? If so, there should be a sign with all the parking terms and conditions that can be read by the driver without having to leave the vehicle. Is that the case?

The car was stopped, while still occupied, in an unmarked bay for 10 minutes. Not in a bay marked as for the use of people with a disability. I'm unsure if the agreed definition for what a "parked" car includes whether or not the car is occupied, and if there is any time limit, and if the car must be locked or not.

The Notice to Keeper (NtK) is not fully compliant as there is no evidence that the any contract could have been formed. There is a minimum consideration period required for the driver to seek out, read and understand the terms and conditions and to decide whether to remain or leave.

Four minutes is below the minimum consideration period and therefore there is no evidence that the driver entered into any contract before deciding to leave the location. It is irrelevant whether the vehicle was stopped in a disabled bay or not.

Additionally, the operator is obliged to comply with the the PPSCoP and the evidence shows that the single sign, high up on a post in tiny font does not comply with section 4.1 which states:

"4.1. The parking operator must ensure that at least one sign containing the terms and conditions for parking can be viewed without the driver needing to leave the vehicle, in order for drivers with a disability to be able to make an informed decision on whether to park at the premises."

That single sign does not fulfil that requirement.

However, you are dealing with an IPC operator so no appeal or subsequent IAS appeal will be successful and the only way you are going beat this is to ignore all debt recovery threats and wait for them to send you a Letter of Claim (LoC) and subsequent N1SDT Claim Form, whereto defend it using a template defence we provide and eventually it is discontinued.

Thanks for your response, I appreciate it.

I will post back if/when I get LoC.

Hello.

I hope you're all well.

I am the registered keeper. I have just noticed this PCN. I have not been on top of my mail as I am juggling a few court cases fighting false allegations. When I try to log on to appeal, it states that the case has been moved to their legal team.

The driver and passenger drove into this parking area. one of them left the car to check to see if the Westminster white disabled badge was valid in this car park. The car was never vacant. 10 minutes of searching did not get a solid answer so the car left the area.

The only signs inside only state "OVS permit holders only". It is not clear that this area is one of the exclusions mentioned of the white badge page (It is not clear that this is a WCC estate): https://www.westminster.gov.uk/parking/disabled-parking/where-you-can-park-disabled-badge

Google maps link:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/1aPdZ5FexUQowPFQ6

Can this be successfully fought please?

Thanks.

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