Author Topic: TfL Yellow Box - Hanger Lane  (Read 1326 times)

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cp8759

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Re: TfL Yellow Box - Hanger Lane
« Reply #45 on: June 07, 2024, 11:02:46 pm »
@NotFair well if you've fixed your spam filter and your case gets listed for a review hearing I can still represent you, let me know if you get a review listing.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

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cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

meaty

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Re: TfL Yellow Box - Hanger Lane
« Reply #46 on: June 12, 2024, 12:11:27 pm »
Thanks all.

There is a helpful website which actually has a pretty perfect photograph of the exact junction in question, gate and all, which I've included in my appeal for review: https://www.yellowboxes.co.uk/1-the-box
Yes that's my site and I took that photo  :)

Personally I would not have referenced the croydon case. I've seen adjudicators use other references as an excuse to refuse because it's different.
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newbie819

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Re: TfL Yellow Box - Hanger Lane
« Reply #47 on: July 29, 2024, 10:18:15 am »
Thanks all.

There is a helpful website which actually has a pretty perfect photograph of the exact junction in question, gate and all, which I've included in my appeal for review: https://www.yellowboxes.co.uk/1-the-box

I've submitted this:

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Following the decision of Adjudicator Mr John Lane, in which my appeal was refused, I now wish to apply to the adjudicator for a review of the decision under paragraph 12 of Schedule 1 to The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Representations and Appeals) (England) Regulations 2022. I am making this application within 14 days of the date of the adjudicator’s decision.
I am seeking review on the following ground(s): The interests of justice require a review.
My reasons for applying for a review are as follows:
1. The adjudicator failed to address and consider the very specific fact that the second alleged "road" is private and gated to which the public does not have access. It is therefore not a "road" as per the Road Traffic Act 1988 definition and the yellow box is therefore not in a permitted location. This was detailed in the original appeal to TfL, but does not appear to have been considered by the adjudicator. I enclose a photograph below of the supposed “road” in question, and the yellow box. This is clearly private, gated, closed, and thus the “road” is not at all accessible to the public. It therefore fails to meet the legal definition of “road”. It should be noted that the gate was closed at the time of the alleged contravention.
 

I quote below some legal cases, and also a London Tribunals adjudication, that further confirm this viewpoint. There is no information/detail as to how the adjudicator came to his conclusion. TfL also failed to provide any evidence that it is a "road" to which the public have access.


London Tribunals case 2220655535 (Kate Gardener vs London Borough of Croydon):

This is a case in which a box junction has been placed at a junction between a private driveway and a road. The appeal was allowed. The junction above, Ealing Village, is also a private driveway, and so this case sets an important precedent.

“Second, I find that the box junction in this particular case extends beyond a junction, it appears to extend for some distance in front of the driveway of a private building. Whilst the TSRGD 2016 has relaxed the law in relation to box junctions, such as the need for Departmental approval and to touch the kerb. They did not dispense with the requirement for box junctions to be at junctions (or outside police or fire stations); they cannot be placed anywhere.”


From https://www.londondrinkdrivingsolicitor.co.uk/-What-is-a-road-anyway:

"Mrs Justice Rafferty held in Hallett v DPP that the presence of a sign or barrier lends weight to a claim that the land is open only to a special class of the public and thus that it is not a road to which the public has access."

"The Divisional Court, presided over by Lord Widgery, heard the case of Deacon v AT (A Minor) and concluded that the land must be open to the public in general and not merely a special class of the public, such as residents or visitors."

2. TfL took 5 months to respond to representations. The adjudicator seems to have ignored the fact that (as quoted on London Tribunals own website: https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/understanding-enforcement-process/moving-traffic-pcn-enforcement-process) "the adjudicators have decided that a Enforcement Authority should normally respond to representations within 3 months." In this case, TfL have given no explanation to justify the undue delay in sending their Notice of Rejection.

Have you heard anything yet from the adjudicator? I recently got a PCN with maybe half of my vehicle remained in the box. I think in such a heavy traffic road it is really harsh to have such a yellow box, and no wonder it is one of the most fined yellow box in London...

So if your appeal is successful, i would try to do the same...

NotFair

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Re: TfL Yellow Box - Hanger Lane
« Reply #48 on: August 26, 2024, 10:59:35 am »
The PCN was cancelled on review of the appeal. Unfortunately, though, not because of the yellow box issue but because TfL took such a long time to respond to reps.
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finesbreakingmybank

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Re: TfL Yellow Box - Hanger Lane
« Reply #49 on: October 31, 2024, 02:51:04 pm »
I've literally JUST received this fine and completely shell shocked at the cost of the fine at £160 discounted price. Is there a high chance of a successful challenge here? I see that the PCN was dropped for other reasons and not in contest to the yellow box being illegal.

John U.K.

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Re: TfL Yellow Box - Hanger Lane
« Reply #50 on: October 31, 2024, 03:00:30 pm »
@finesbreakingmybank   Please to have a read of
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

and start your own topic with a brief summary of the circumstances and all sides of the PCN (only redact your name & address - nothing else) and a GSV link to the location.