3. PCN Parked on footpath
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Re: PCN Parked on footpath
« Reply #15 on: »
OP, can I try and simplify this issue pl.

Traffic signs indicate that footway parking with 2 wheels is permitted in parts of Darwin Drive.

There are no signs indicating that footway parking is permitted in Darwin Drive with 4 wheels on the footway.

There are 3 pairs of footway parking signs(a pair being footway parking is permitted to one side but not the other).

Darwin Drive house numbers are odd/even on opposite sides of the road.

One pair of signs is situated o/s no. 19 which indicates that from 19 to no. 73  footway parking with two wheels is permitted.

One pair of signs is situated o/s no.73 indicating that beyond this point footway parking is not permitted.

One pair is situated o/s no. 34 which indicates that from no. 34-no. 2  2-wheel footway parking is permitted.

Now for the crunch.....

Your car was parked with 4 wheels on the footway, contrary to the signs' permission, o/s no. ****?

Please confirm and indicate which house number should be inserted in ****.

This isn't to say that 4 wheels is not permitted e.g. plenty of contra indicators that 4-wheel parking is commonplace including a disabled parking place situated wholly on the footway without the benefit of a traffic sign indicating that this is permitted as an exception to the prevailing 2-wheel permission from which it is reasonable to deduce that the prevailing permission IS 4 wheels and not 2.

But let's get the basics in play first pl.
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Re: PCN Parked on footpath
« Reply #16 on: »
Quote from: H C Andersen on October 15, 2024, 07:05:43 pm
OP, can I try and simplify this issue pl.

Traffic signs indicate that footway parking with 2 wheels is permitted in parts of Darwin Drive.

There are no signs indicating that footway parking is permitted in Darwin Drive with 4 wheels on the footway.

There are 3 pairs of footway parking signs(a pair being footway parking is permitted to one side but not the other).

Darwin Drive house numbers are odd/even on opposite sides of the road.

One pair of signs is situated o/s no. 19 which indicates that from 19 to no. 73  footway parking with two wheels is permitted.

One pair of signs is situated o/s no.73 indicating that beyond this point footway parking is not permitted.

One pair is situated o/s no. 34 which indicates that from no. 34-no. 2  2-wheel footway parking is permitted.

Now for the crunch.....

Your car was parked with 4 wheels on the footway, contrary to the signs' permission, o/s no. ****?

Please confirm and indicate which house number should be inserted in ****.

This isn't to say that 4 wheels is not permitted e.g. plenty of contra indicators that 4-wheel parking is commonplace including a disabled parking place situated wholly on the footway without the benefit of a traffic sign indicating that this is permitted as an exception to the prevailing 2-wheel permission from which it is reasonable to deduce that the prevailing permission IS 4 wheels and not 2.

But let's get the basics in play first pl.

Thank you for the reply, apologies for getting back to this so late.
My Vehicle was parked outside number 30.
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Re: PCN Parked on footpath
« Reply #17 on: »
So I received this notice as a letter of rejection to all three appeals, even though I sent them all separately they've dealt with them all as one, including the one where I was double ticketed.
Should I just bite the bullet and pay the reduced penalty or do I stand a chance at the tribunal?

Ive uploaded the letter to the google drive under Ealing Rejection of Appeals.

Link : https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1tSkJe86l067leGVtVFbNzK-rqFNCgkcd?usp=sharing
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Re: PCN Parked on footpath
« Reply #18 on: »
Did you ask for a resolution that sets aside the footway parking ban?

I can't but still think there must be a way to liaise on a collective challenge - you won't be happy if you pay and find a neighbour took it to the tribunal and won.
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Re: PCN Parked on footpath
« Reply #19 on: »
Quote from: stamfordman on October 28, 2024, 01:26:12 pm
Did you ask for a resolution that sets aside the footway parking ban?

I can't but still think there must be a way to liaise on a collective challenge - you won't be happy if you pay and find a neighbour took it to the tribunal and won.

Yes I asked for it in the appeal letter, but they completely ignored it and never made mention of it.
Also I know a number of my neighbours already paid the reduced amount.

Also, I sent three appeals separately, one for my car, one for my wife's car and the one for the double ticket on my car.

In the rejection letter I received today, they state that I claim the car was double ticketed and that it would have to be a separate appeal and they rejected it with this one, but I did send it separately, I have a separate reference number and never mentioned the double ticket in this appeal, (I'm reading that back and it probably makes absolutely no sense).

So basically I sent three separate appeals and received three separate emails with different reference numbers, but they seem to have conflated two of them into one.

I am yet to receive the outcome on my wife's car, but seeing as it's the same letter as my one, I don't think there will be a different outcome.

I am going to stick with the appeal, because we have been parking like this for decades without any action from the council, but I've never appealed anything before, I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing but for the sheer principle of what they did and how the council went about it.
How are we supposed to know that anything has changed if they don't communicate anything to us?
« Last Edit: October 28, 2024, 02:42:48 pm by Carlos CGD »
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Re: PCN Parked on footpath
« Reply #20 on: »
Try and find out if anyone else is going to the tribunal.

Our admin @cp8759 may help as he knows about resolutions although that may not help.
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Re: PCN Parked on footpath
« Reply #21 on: »
Thank you
I will drop him a message.
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Re: PCN Parked on footpath
« Reply #22 on: »
Are you or are you not in an area (your side of the road) where ONLY 2-wheeled footway parking is permitted according to the signs in situ?

Were you parked with 4 wheels on the footway?

No point dancing around these objective fundamentals.

That you've done this for decades etc. are subjective comments in support of which you would appear to have no objective evidence.

This is not to say it's not true, but you should recognise the challenge which you would face at adjudication.


 

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Re: PCN Parked on footpath
« Reply #23 on: »
@Carlos CGD well unfortunately this thread wasn't brought to my attention when it started, and I can't reply to most threads as I'm normally swamped with tribunal appeals, but we are where we are.

I've never seen a footway parking resolution from Ealing, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't be able to produce one. I have requested it anyway, and Ealing are often quite quick at coming back to me, so there's no harm in waiting to see if it comes back before the discount expires.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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Re: PCN Parked on footpath
« Reply #24 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on October 29, 2024, 09:37:33 am
@Carlos CGD well unfortunately this thread wasn't brought to my attention when it started, and I can't reply to most threads as I'm normally swamped with tribunal appeals, but we are where we are.

I've never seen a footway parking resolution from Ealing, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't be able to produce one. I have requested it anyway, and Ealing are often quite quick at coming back to me, so there's no harm in waiting to see if it comes back before the discount expires.

Thats brilliant, thank you.
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Re: PCN Parked on footpath
« Reply #25 on: »
Quote from: H C Andersen on October 28, 2024, 10:32:24 pm
Are you or are you not in an area (your side of the road) where ONLY 2-wheeled footway parking is permitted according to the signs in situ?

Were you parked with 4 wheels on the footway?

No point dancing around these objective fundamentals.

That you've done this for decades etc. are subjective comments in support of which you would appear to have no objective evidence.

This is not to say it's not true, but you should recognise the challenge which you would face at adjudication.

I am parked with two wheels on the tarmaced area and two wheels on the footpath.
I don't think it looks very clear from the pictures, but the tarmac area is lowered to meet the road, so it's at an angle.
If the tarmac area is classed as the footpath and not the road, then yes all 4 wheels are on the footpath.
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Re: PCN Parked on footpath
« Reply #26 on: »
It is 'a footpath or part of the road other than the carriageway'.

So as regards the signs and underlying legislation as written the contravention occurred.

However, whether you have a defence based in:

The council have disapplied the legislation for the complete width of the footway (the 'resolution' as per cp's post), or

Legitimate expectation..

we've yet to discover.
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Re: PCN Parked on footpath
« Reply #27 on: »
I will not get into the footway parking issue as others have commented extensively. On the subject of "two tickets for the same offence" here is the key case from the London Tribunals (previously PATAS) to quote:

 Go into www.londontribunals.gov.uk, select Register of Appeals and then enter the case number 2110189461.

The adjudicator said in essence "A car does not commit a new offence every 24 hours if it hasn't moved in the meantime. It's a continuous contravention".

This might help you to get off one of the PCNs.
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Re: PCN Parked on footpath
« Reply #28 on: »
Quote from: Chaseman on October 30, 2024, 03:15:23 pm
I will not get into the footway parking issue as others have commented extensively. On the subject of "two tickets for the same offence" here is the key case from the London Tribunals (previously PATAS) to quote:

 Go into www.londontribunals.gov.uk, select Register of Appeals and then enter the case number 2110189461.

The adjudicator said in essence "A car does not commit a new offence every 24 hours if it hasn't moved in the meantime. It's a continuous contravention".

This might help you to get off one of the PCNs.

Thank you Chaseman.

Ealing have rejected both tickets for my car, including the second one even though the car hadn't been moved from when they ticketed it the first time and this can be seen clearly in the pictures.
I have attached both the rejections in the Google drive folder
under Ealing Rejection AO02268960
and Ealing Rejection AO02216923

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1tSkJe86l067leGVtVFbNzK-rqFNCgkcd?usp=sharing

They have used the same rejection for both tickets?

So it looks like I will have to go to tribunal for at least one of the tickets.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2024, 06:42:45 pm by Carlos CGD »
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Re: PCN Parked on footpath
« Reply #29 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on October 29, 2024, 09:37:33 am
@Carlos CGD well unfortunately this thread wasn't brought to my attention when it started, and I can't reply to most threads as I'm normally swamped with tribunal appeals, but we are where we are.

I've never seen a footway parking resolution from Ealing, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't be able to produce one. I have requested it anyway, and Ealing are often quite quick at coming back to me, so there's no harm in waiting to see if it comes back before the discount expires.

Hi cp8759
Did anything come back from Ealing with regards to the parking resolution?
My discount period for the tickets ends on Sunday
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