Author Topic: Parking outside a bay  (Read 1092 times)

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Parking outside a bay
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So I couldn't find a place to Park in a Park and Ride car park so parked on a verge.  Other drivers had done the same.  When  I came back to the car I had a yellow Parking Notice Enclosed sticker.
I have an infringement code 05 "Parking in a manner which the whole or part of the vehicle is outside of a marked bay. This was issued by Oxfordshire county council today. it says I have to pay £100 within 28 days of infringement. The charge will be reduced to £50 if the payment is received within 14 days of infringement. I admit I didn't park in a bay but many other cars didn't either too and they didn't get tickets.

It also says:
===============================================================================================================
"It is an offence under section 35A (1) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 for the driver of a vehicle who has left the vehicle in a parking place and contravenes the traffic order, to fail to pay the excess charge. FAILURE TO PAY THE CHARGE IN THE PERIOD PRESCRIBED MAY RENDER THE DRIVER LIABLE FOR PROSECUTION AND A FINE NOT EXCEEDING £500, IN ADDITION TO THE EXCESS CHARGE.

PAYMENT of this excess charge should be made NO LATER THAN THE TWENTY-EIGHTH DAY FOLLOWING THE DAY OF ISSUE.

REDUCTION OF EXCESS CHARGE FOR EARLY SETTLEMENTS

Without prejudice the Council will accept in settlement of the excess charge, a reduced payment, provided that the payment is received by the Council by 4.00pm on the fourteenth day (following the issue of excess charge). This period will be extended until 4.00pm on the next day should a Bank Holiday fall within the fourteen day period.

The Excess Charge will be reduced by 50%

Instructions for payment

Payment may be made in the following ways:-

Debit/credit card: Via the Council's website: www.oxford.gov.uk/parkingtickets

Bank Transfer: Account Number, 30750662 Sort Code 20-71-29

Please quote Oxford City Council as the Payee name and use your parking notice number beginning with OC as the reference.

The Council may request registered keeper details from the DVLA.
If you believe that this charge should not be paid and wish to

appeal the notice:-

All appeals must be submitted in writing. Please quote the Notice Reference Number, the vehicle registration and your address in all correspondence. In submitting any appeal you should also confirm whether you were the driver of the vehicle at the time of the contravention.

Webpage - www.oxford.gov.uk/parkingtickets

Write to - Oxford City Council, Parking Service, PO Box 10, OX1 1EN

If you appeal this notice within the 14 days discounted period, the discount will remain frozen until Oxford City Council responds. If the appeal is accepted the charge will be cancelled. If the appeal is not accepted Oxford City Council will decide whether to re-offer the discounted rate dependant on the circumstances of the individual case.

To view our privacy notice, please visit www.oxford.gov.uk

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I am trying to appeal this via there website ..but I get the error "The Excess Charge Notice could not be found.
Please check that you have not mistyped"  even though I have tried to change all the zeros to an letter O but nothing works..

If I have to pay it lesson learned but I would rather not.

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« Last Edit: May 18, 2024, 10:21:29 pm by Cola0825 »

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Re: Parking outside a bay
« Reply #1 on: »
As this seems to be a council ticket I have moved it to the council tickets forum for you. To help the experts there best assist you, read the following thread and provide all the information it asks for: READ THIS FIRST - **BEFORE POSTING YOUR CASE!**, This section is for council, TFL, Dart/Mersey/Tyne etc. cases

Re: Parking outside a bay
« Reply #2 on: »
Please post the actual notice, all sides.  However with the words "excess charge", it would seem to be issued under the criminal law, if magistrates courts are threatened. I looked at the website you give, and it seems to all be about paying Penalty Charge Notices that are issued under the decriminalised legislation.

However, until we know what we are dealing with, final advice cannot be given.

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Re: Parking outside a bay
« Reply #3 on: »
Yeah, Oxford and Oxfordshire have a weird cross-issuing arrangement and they issue penalty charge notices for some things, and excess charges for others. I’m not sure that’s entirely legal - as far as I’m aware, councils who adopt the decriminalised penalty charge notices are supposed to stop issuing excess charge notices. But that’s a fight that involves taking a government body to court and who wants to do that?

The excess charge system is older and much harsher than the penalty charge system. If an appeal doesn’t go your way, you get taken to magistrates court. Can get a hefty fine if they think your reason for not paying isn’t good enough (remember, they’re taking you to court for not paying an excess charge, not for your original parking).

The usual advice for excess charges is, unless you’ve got a pretty good appeal, just pay them. Especially if they’re still in the 50% off window.
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Re: Parking outside a bay
« Reply #4 on: »
The system won't let me update original post something about a deadline being reached... I've been busy but anyway here is the ticket.

Here is the front:
https://1drv.ms/b/s!AjIDsSnZk6RuhtEEZCid0mgDr_6hoQ?e=VLfhxL

Here is the back:
https://1drv.ms/b/s!AjIDsSnZk6RuhtEFGIOi8lptruP8pw?e=qIjeCD

Also here is a photo of the sign: https://www.amazon.co.uk/photos/share/LELKMpZPqeMDonOjS0oTlZYMOgsAqWVGSpkgBeeH8PA

Also I am I able to lodge an appeal as the Penalty Notice Number doesn't even work on there website. So I couldn't pay it even if I wanted to?
Is it relevant that many other cars parked outside the pay and did not get a fine? ( I have photographic evidence)

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« Last Edit: May 19, 2024, 07:52:20 pm by Cola0825 »

Re: Parking outside a bay
« Reply #5 on: »
What a crock of S%%t.

Which Council is the enforcement authority--county or city?

If the car park falls within the city boundary they are covered by this:-

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2650/note/made

In other words decriminalised parking enforcement governed by PCNs not ECNs.

The scam of course is that an ECN will bring in more money and there is no recourse to an independent body (the Mags Court is certainly not independent).

Now this is where access to Pepipoo would have been useful because we fought against both Councils when they tried it on in the past. I do however remember that the Parking Prankster supported us against another Council:-

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2014/08/wycombe-district-council-banned-for.html?m=1

Also IIRC the LA Ombudsman ruled that a Council could not run a car park as a private one because they owned the land as a public body.

EDIT--this one:-

https://www.lgo.org.uk/information-centre/news/2019/jan/councils-urged-to-check-their-parking-policies-following-ombudsman-investigation

Need members views on this one.

Mike

Re: Parking outside a bay
« Reply #6 on: »
Here is the location on Google
https://maps.app.goo.gl/MxhQzcVVCKw9xFVR7
It's next to Oxford Parkway railway station.
A look on Bing Maps shows it is outside the boundary of the City of Oxford, so maybe what they are doing is legal ? South Hinksey (the other place on the Order), is on the south-west side of Oxford, and in a very peculiar situation, as the only road access is via the Oxford Bypass.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2024, 06:07:15 pm by cp8759 »

Re: Parking outside a bay
« Reply #7 on: »

Re: Parking outside a bay
« Reply #8 on: »
The ECN starts with "OC" which means Oxford City Council is the enforcement authority rather than Oxfordshire County Council which has reference numbers starting with "OX". Everything else in the ECN falls to Oxford City Council.

There is no mention of any agency agreement with Oxfordshire County Council so why their name is atop the ECN as the de facto enforcement authority is a puzzle. Likewise if the City Council is not mentioned on the car park noticeboard we have a right dog's breakfast.

The Orders noted on the ECN are spurious--the City of Oxford (Park & Ride Parking Places) Order is not available on the web. I've requested the Orders governing the car park.

Wait for others to comment but my approach would be to pay at the discount rate and submit a case to the LA Ombudsman where you should get your money refunded plus an "inconvenience" amount; plus a written apology.

Mike
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Re: Parking outside a bay
« Reply #9 on: »
Hi All thanks for your feedback on this so at the moment I am likely to to pay at the discount rate and submit a case to the LA Ombudsman.

If I go down this route, how would it be best to word my case to them?

Re: Parking outside a bay
« Reply #10 on: »
So I did try to appeal which got rejected I don't fancy going to a magistrate's court and getting a 1k fine.
So I just paid it apparently the parking attended didn't ticked the other cars because he had an emergency.

Re: Parking outside a bay
« Reply #11 on: »
@Cola0825 I'm sorry to say you've been scammed. Oxford City Council has no legal authority to take you to the magistrates court if you hadn't paid because parking in Oxfordshire has been decriminalised.

The reason is explained here: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/71/regulation/8

We've had a case before where Norfolk Police tried prosecuting someone for a code 46 contravention in Great Yarmouth, @Nosy Parker (who's a solicitor) and I went to GY Magistrates' Court with the OP to get the charges dismissed and we now have a costs hearing coming up against the Norfolk Police to get them to foot a rather hefty bill. I'm sure it would have been an interesting day out if we could have done your case as well, but if you've paid it's too late now.

The only reason Oxford City Council gets away with this bullshit is that nobody challenges them because they're too scared, everyone keeps paying them and the money keeps rolling in, so they have no reason to do anything different.

I don't think the ombudsman approach will get you anywhere because you had an appropriate route to obtain redress and you voluntarily forfeited it.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: Parking outside a bay
« Reply #12 on: »
cp8759 How can it be legal for them to be threating to take people to a magistrate's court then? is it worth me writing to my MP? I don't think people are scared as to be scared is an irrational fear of something. It's rational to fear the law as most of us don't understand it. Anyway least I know for next time.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2024, 10:13:48 am by Cola0825 »

Re: Parking outside a bay
« Reply #13 on: »
cp8759 How can it be legal for them to be threating to take people to a magistrate's court then? is it worth me writing to my MP? I don't think people are scared as to be scared is an irrational fear of something. It's rational to fear the law as must of us don't understand it. Anyway least I know for next time.
Even though you've paid it, if it were me, I'd be writing to my MP, but after the election !
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Re: Parking outside a bay
« Reply #14 on: »
@cp8759 I did write to my MP using the link you provided however the guy from odsgroup said this:

The legislation Mr ******* has referred to relates to where Civil Parking Enforcement also known as Decriminalised Parking Enforcement is in place.  That does not apply to our public Car Parks which are managed under the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 which allows Fixed Penalty Notices which are criminal penalties.

Oxford City enforce its off street car parks using the 1984 RTA under section 35A (1) where it is an offence for the driver of the vehicle to contravene the traffic order.

It is an offence to park in a manner in which whole or part of the vehicle is outside of a marked bay, for anyone that contravenes the order a penalty can be issued.

Below is the photograph taken by the officer at the time he observed the vehicle. Clearly Mr ****** had parked outside of a bay. I can confirm the penalty charge has been issued correctly.

The penalty raised is dealt with under criminal law, and if the Council had not received payment of the charge, where an appeal had not been successful or the penalty charge had remained unpaid beyond the 28 days detailed upon the notice, the driver is liable for prosecution.



I would like to make clear that in my experience penalties are usually settled either with payment of the fine or following a successful appeal.

If a case does reach court and the verdict is proven I can confirm that a criminal record is not kept for these parking misdemeanours. I can see that Mr ***** was concerned about this in his letter to Ben Everitt.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2024, 11:22:50 am by Cola0825 »