3. Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
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Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
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Hello,

Before I go right into detail I wanted to know if anyone knows whether it’s worth challenging the bus lane pcn for travelling through Oxford Road to Brancaster Road at 18:59.

I have read a lot about how much this section has made but struggle to find any wins on appealing as it seems signage is in good order.

If you’d like me to upload the PCN to start with I can do this.

It’s 50% fee is £30 I’m tempted to just take this as a slap on the wrist and walk away… let me know your thoughts.

Thanks
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Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
« Reply #1 on: »
For meaningful advice you need to have a read of
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

and to post up here
all sides of the PCN (only redact yr name & address, leave everything else in);
a GSV link to the location;
and the video ( which is the evidence ).

Then the experts here can form a view on whether it's worth appealing.

When does the period for discounted payment expire?
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Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
« Reply #2 on: »
All documents received from the lease company are attached.

I understand that PCN is not in my name.
But do I just nip it in the bud and just pay the £30 half price while
I can?

Just don’t want to land myself a bigger fine for something that doesn’t have any flaws that we can pick up on to avoid paying.

Im trying to upload but I am receiving server full error and to contact admin..?

Anyone else getting this message?
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Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
« Reply #3 on: »
GSV link

https://maps.app.goo.gl/P9dAvpezyj4s7S9s7?g_st=ic

The first sign was un noticed or blocked by a vehicle.
When you pull up to the lights which I remember doing at a red signal, you cannot see the sign on the immediate left on the side walk. As soon as I entered the cross section I then noticed the sign on the far left facing me which is at the wrong angle and I was miss lead and due to traffic Building up behind me I hesitated and turned left which was in fact the road that has the restrictions on!
« Last Edit: June 11, 2024, 07:33:08 pm by D D »
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Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
« Reply #4 on: »
Quote from: D D on June 11, 2024, 07:23:16 pm
Im trying to upload but I am receiving server full error and to contact admin..?

Anyone else getting this message?
You'll need to use a third party site, as advised in the thread John posted for you to consult in reply #1.
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Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
« Reply #5 on: »
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Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
« Reply #6 on: »
Everything uploaded now.

The only thing that I can see is the sign on the other side of the cross road has been installed not parallel with the curb and makes you think it’s in relation to the road straight ahead which is a through road for all vehicle's.
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Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
« Reply #7 on: »
@D D well you didn't read the guidance properly but I've re-posted the images for you:









Video:



The one key mistake you will want to avoid is sending anything in the post, as I said last time it is 2024 after all.

The most viable argument to get out of this would be to get the lease company to transfer liability to you, make a simple "did not occur" representation, appeal to the tribunal and argue that the transfer of liability is invalid. The appeal will then be allowed and virtually all authorities will give up at this point.

However we would need to see the lease agreement, including the small print, in order to be able to give a definitive view on your chances of success.

I can see you made a representation on 10 June so it would also be helpful to see exactly what you said. Or if it was the lease company that made a representation, just confirm that to us please.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
« Reply #8 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on June 16, 2024, 03:59:52 pm
@D D well you didn't read the guidance properly but I've re-posted the images for you:









Video:



The one key mistake you will want to avoid is sending anything in the post, as I said last time it is 2024 after all.

The most viable argument to get out of this would be to get the lease company to transfer liability to you, make a simple "did not occur" representation, appeal to the tribunal and argue that the transfer of liability is invalid. The appeal will then be allowed and virtually all authorities will give up at this point.

However we would need to see the lease agreement, including the small print, in order to be able to give a definitive view on your chances of success.

I can see you made a representation on 10 June so it would also be helpful to see exactly what you said. Or if it was the lease company that made a representation, just confirm that to us please.

Thank you for your assistance!

I have had no participation to any representation so far so what has been done to date has been done by the lease company.

So would it be worthwhile doing the following as you explained, make a simple "did not occur" representation, appeal to the tribunal and argue that the transfer of liability is invalid. The appeal will then be allowed and virtually all authorities will give up at this point.

And expensive lesson learned on the mail side of things  ;)

Regards
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Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
« Reply #9 on: »
Quote from: D D on June 17, 2024, 10:15:48 am
So would it be worthwhile doing the following as you explained...
This strategy has never failed so far. I've had a few cases where a council has tried to reissue the penalty to the lease company, but they've all been cancelled in the end for some reason or another (I always get a letter of authority in place ahead of time and agreement from the lease company that I can appeal on their behalf). I have never seen a non-London authority even try.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
« Reply #10 on: »
Ok so should my first move be to get the lease company to transfer liability to me then make the simple "did not occur" representation?

Or

Get the lease agreement, including the small print before doing anything?s

Thanks again
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Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
« Reply #11 on: »
Quote from: D D on June 18, 2024, 01:04:35 am
Ok so should my first move be to get the lease company to transfer liability to me then make the simple "did not occur" representation?
I suspect the lease company has already requested a transfer of liability, but get them to confirm.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
« Reply #12 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on June 18, 2024, 01:22:12 am
Quote from: D D on June 18, 2024, 01:04:35 am
Ok so should my first move be to get the lease company to transfer liability to me then make the simple "did not occur" representation?
I suspect the lease company has already requested a transfer of liability, but get them to confirm.

I have received a letter from the lease company stating they have given my details to the authority transferring liability to myself.

I have continued with the next stage of submitting the representation of “it did not occur”

I entered my details also to the representation.

@cp8759
« Last Edit: June 20, 2024, 10:37:41 am by D D »
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Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
« Reply #13 on: »
It's not clear whether you've actually received anything from the council? The case history suggests the council hasn't even processed the lease company's request:



This means that when a new PCN is issued to you, you will have to respond regardless of the fact that you've made representations already, that is because whatever you sent now would not have been in response to a PCN served on you; when the PCN is served on you you're required to respond regardless of what might have come before. There's no point in jumping the gun with these statutory procedures.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Like Like x 1 View List
Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
« Reply #14 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on June 23, 2024, 10:45:51 am
It's not clear whether you've actually received anything from the council? The case history suggests the council hasn't even processed the lease company's request:


This means that when a new PCN is issued to you, you will have to respond regardless of the fact that you've made representations already, that is because whatever you sent now would not have been in response to a PCN served on you; when the PCN is served on you you're required to respond regardless of what might have come before. There's no point in jumping the gun with these statutory procedures.

I have not yet received anything directly from MCC.

I will email the lease company today and ask if the transfer has been completed.

The PCN I was issued at the start are ones received by the lease company from MCC.

I will await a new PCN in my title from MCC and will update as soon as it arrives.
I appreciate your close eye on this case sir.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2024, 12:19:26 am by D D »
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