Author Topic: Lambeth - windscreen PCN - code 12s - Cutcombe Road (A)  (Read 5943 times)

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Re: Lambeth - windscreen PCN - code 12s - Cutcombe Road (A)
« Reply #45 on: »
there you go


Re: Lambeth - windscreen PCN - code 12s - Cutcombe Road (A)
« Reply #46 on: »
Have VW leasing received a noitice of cancellation of the original PCN?

Re: Lambeth - windscreen PCN - code 12s - Cutcombe Road (A)
« Reply #47 on: »
Have VW leasing received a noitice of cancellation of the original PCN?

Ask the question but regardless that letter will not suffice to transfer liability they need to at a minimum set out the date and terms of the lease

Re: Lambeth - windscreen PCN - code 12s - Cutcombe Road (A)
« Reply #48 on: »
Yes unfortunately they have indeed received a confirmation letter from Lambeth

Re: Lambeth - windscreen PCN - code 12s - Cutcombe Road (A)
« Reply #49 on: »
Have VW leasing received a noitice of cancellation of the original PCN?

Ask the question but regardless that letter will not suffice to transfer liability they need to at a minimum set out the date and terms of the lease

The letter has the dates of the lease but not much more.

Anything I should add in the draft challenge for this beyond what I have already?

Re: Lambeth - windscreen PCN - code 12s - Cutcombe Road (A)
« Reply #50 on: »

'Penalty exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case'.

The circumstances being that the authority had no legal basis to demand a penalty from you as the 'owner' because they were not empowered to issue a new NTO to you pursuant to regulations 20(1) and 20(4)(b) of the General Provisions etc. Regulations because the precedent conditions in Regulation 5(4)(d) had not been met by the owner i.e. the authority was not in possession of a statement of liability signed by you or evidence that the owner was a 'vehicle-hire firm' and that a 'hiring agreement' (both defined terms) were in effect.

In this case, the authority have simply accepted the say-so of a leasing company that the vehicle in question was subject to a 3-year lease, however, this claim, even if correct, does not meet the legal standard required and therefore the authority's purported cancellation of that NTO was ultra vires and it must therefore follow that their issue of a new NTO was similarly unlawful.

As a thought.   

Re: Lambeth - windscreen PCN - code 12s - Cutcombe Road (A)
« Reply #51 on: »

'Penalty exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case'.

The circumstances being that the authority had no legal basis to demand a penalty from you as the 'owner' because they were not empowered to issue a new NTO to you pursuant to regulations 20(1) and 20(4)(b) of the General Provisions etc. Regulations because the precedent conditions in Regulation 5(4)(d) had not been met by the owner i.e. the authority was not in possession of a statement of liability signed by you or evidence that the owner was a 'vehicle-hire firm' and that a 'hiring agreement' (both defined terms) were in effect.

In this case, the authority have simply accepted the say-so of a leasing company that the vehicle in question was subject to a 3-year lease, however, this claim, even if correct, does not meet the legal standard required and therefore the authority's purported cancellation of that NTO was ultra vires and it must therefore follow that their issue of a new NTO was similarly unlawful.

As a thought.

Thanks is that relevant for the PCN and NTO issued under TMA 2004 or do I need to change the references?

Also here is the NTO in my name if that adds any other points I should add?




« Last Edit: January 19, 2024, 11:15:45 am by taffer87 »

Re: Lambeth - windscreen PCN - code 12s - Cutcombe Road (A)
« Reply #52 on: »
Have VW leasing received a noitice of cancellation of the original PCN?

here is the council letter to the lease company.. it technically doesn't say it is a "Notice of Acceptance" does it need to be quite explicit to count as a Notice of Acceptance? If so could be an appeal point once it gets to London Tribunals


Re: Lambeth - windscreen PCN - code 12s - Cutcombe Road (A)
« Reply #53 on: »
As I understand it (but see what the experts say) in order to accept the transfer of liability (see also pots replies #47 & #50 from PMB and HCA) they have to cancel the original PCN & NtO and re-issue to you. They have specifically declined to cancel. It's a mess, but it needs an expert to give you definitive advice as to next step.

See also this Lambeth doc on Representations both VW & you have received,note especially the 2nd paragraph and the 4th. ground.

« Last Edit: January 19, 2024, 03:55:23 pm by John U.K. »

Re: Lambeth - windscreen PCN - code 12s - Cutcombe Road (A)
« Reply #54 on: »

My point remains the same. If anything it's enhanced by the council's letter which is typically legally ignorant. Where ANY reps are made then the council are under this duty:


5) If the enforcement authority accepts the representations—

(a)it must cancel the relevant enforcement notice,

(b)its decision notice must state that the enforcement notice has been cancelled
 
*- Enforcement notice is a regulatory term which covers a NTO.

OP, in my draft please insert 'Appeals' before Regulation (5)...

Re: Lambeth - windscreen PCN - code 12s - Cutcombe Road (A)
« Reply #55 on: »
thanks for this. Seems like this will be a pretty solid appeal point for London Tribunals


My point remains the same. If anything it's enhanced by the council's letter which is typically legally ignorant. Where ANY reps are made then the council are under this duty:


5) If the enforcement authority accepts the representations—

(a)it must cancel the relevant enforcement notice,

(b)its decision notice must state that the enforcement notice has been cancelled
 
*- Enforcement notice is a regulatory term which covers a NTO.

OP, in my draft please insert 'Appeals' before Regulation (5)...

Re: Lambeth - windscreen PCN - code 12s - Cutcombe Road (A)
« Reply #56 on: »
I don't see that Lambeth's actions will stand up to scrutiny, I'd send HCA's draft for now and let's see what drivel comes back in the rejection.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: Lambeth - windscreen PCN - code 12s - Cutcombe Road (A)
« Reply #57 on: »
@taffer87 has sent me the terms of the lease and they don't create a permanent disposition in any event, so it's hard to see how one could lose this case.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: Lambeth - windscreen PCN - code 12s - Cutcombe Road (A)
« Reply #58 on: »
received a rejection notice today. should i submit the london tribunal in person appeal saying i rely on my previous representation and will provide further points after reviewing the evidence pack presented by Lambeth?







Re: Lambeth - windscreen PCN - code 12s - Cutcombe Road (A)
« Reply #59 on: »

There should be a law against councils acting in this way!
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