Author Topic: Lambeth - PCN 53j - Charge Certificate £195 before receiving the rejection letter  (Read 1746 times)

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Quite URGENT matter as I have no idea what happens next.

@cp8759

Lambeth - PCN 53j -  Charge Certificate £195 before receiving the rejection letter even though I was in contact via phone call and emailed as I was told to.

Authority : Lambeth Council
Contravention : PCN 53j - Entering the Time Restricted Pedestrian Street - Bowling Green Street
Location : Bowling Green St, London SE11 4QA
https://maps.app.goo.gl/dN8Phx5aE6KQxoH49

Entered turning left from Kennington Road at 2.45pm on Thursday 21st November 2024
Time restriction : Monday to Friday 8.15am - 9.15am and 2.45pm - 3.45pm.

I was on the courtesy motorcycle, the initial PCN was redirected to my name and was sent to my address.

The PCN was issued to me on the 13/Dec/2024 which I received on 18/Dec/2024.
I wanted to informally challenge the PCN and I believed that even my case was to be rejected, the charge will still be at discounted amount at £65.
PCN Arrived on 2024.Dec.18




I tried on-line informal challenge but the on-line system was not allowing me to do anything.
I called 020 7926 9000 and spoke to a lady called Angie and explained the situation.
She had told me to emailed to environment@lambeth.gov.uk and explain the situation.
She also told me to call back and ask to get the confirmation on email being logged to the system.

So I emailed on 19/Dec/2024, which I have the copy of the email in my sent box in my email account.
Email I sent dated 2024.Dec.19


I also called back on 6/Jan/2025 to ask to check but the different lady who I spoke then told me that she was not able to check.
And she told me to wait for the post.
Dates of Calls I made



I waited.

Then 4/Feb/2025 I was surprised by Charge Certificate.
And the charge was increased at not just £130 but £195.
And they are saying they will increase the fee after the 14 days from 28th January.
Arrived on 2025.02.04



There were no access other than the postal service and those dates they state as 14 days are not actually 14 days as there are time delays.

Then the rejection letter dated 2025.Feb.11
Arrived on 2025.02.18




Every contact I made had not given me the right information or explanation for me to understand in order to  make the choice suited to my situation.

They are dealing with PCN day in and day out and their profession is to reject as many PCN as possible with no personal risk to them. All the letters I received has no name and I am against a brick wall.

For anyone receiving PCN, it is personal and the stake is too high for the risk we take to challenging it.
They also hold our personal information and this could even affect our personal credit score.

I was involved in an accident in Oct 2024 and have been having problem with wording composing, simplifying the story also taking in informations are near impossible.
I have not just shot my foot but I seem to have shot in the head by trying to informally challenge, well, I was asking a question in a first place.
I really should have paid £65.

It was genuine mistake in the first place but their system changes made my case even more complicated.


The point in the first place was:

I had entered the street at wrong timing twice before I received the first PCN to realise.

And the sign post is not placed adequately for any vehicle approaching to turn left into the Bowling Green Street that I was not able to notice the signpost.

Since I had received the PCN, I know where the signpost is and I have tried many times to notice the sign post whilst paying attention to any potential hazards, it is impossible as it is not angled to be visible to the vehicle approaching to turn left into the street.

The images I have taken from the road position where I would be riding.

Timing of when the post-van is there, it blocks the view completely



The Big Tree is hiding the signpost



Neither of the signpost is facing vehicle approaching



Able to all the other signpost except the one I got PCN for as it is blended into the background



By the time I am at the junction to enter the street, I am right by the side of the sign and they are above my head. I am waring a full-face helmet and I cannot see above.

But now turned into unfair rejection with the increased charge and power harassment by the authority.
The stress it is causing and hardship with the threat to increase the charge plus the court fee etc.

Anyone who has no time, no energy, not enough knowledge to deal with the matter are threatened to pay the charge.
Which used to be dealt with a simple phone call with a real person and the situation was to be listened and taken into account, the genuine mistake was not to be penalised / punished.
It seems anyone wanting to challenge it, has to take up so much learning to even ask a question.

I don’t know where to get help, who I am supposed to be talking to, it is getting out of hand.
I have no idea when this will be going to court or will I get informed?
I don’t even know what I have to do to get this charge dropped or at least at £65
Asking for a solicitor will increase the cost even more and what am I supposed to be doing with this matter?
« Last Edit: March 04, 2025, 07:44:31 pm by cp8759 »

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This is a council PCN so I have moved this post to the Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) forum.

To help the users there provide you with the best advice, please read the following thread carefully and provide as much of the information it requests as you are able to: READ THIS FIRST - **BEFORE POSTING YOUR CASE!**, This section is for council, TFL, Dart/Mersey/Tyne etc. cases

@marie I have dealt with this outfit many times. Just wait for the Order for Recovery and tick the PE form box which states you made representations but did not receive a notice of rejection. This need to be signed in front of a witness, either a solicitor or county court - the latter id free but needs an appointment.

I am more than happy to assist.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

OP, let's get who's who sorted out first, it's important.

Contravention : PCN 53j - Entering the Time Restricted Pedestrian Street - Bowling Green Street
Location : Bowling Green St, London SE11 4QA
   https://maps.app.goo.gl/dN8Phx5aE6KQxoH49

Entered turning left from Kennington Road at 2.45pm on Thursday 21st November 2024
   Time restriction : Monday to Friday 8.15am - 9.15am and 2.45pm - 3.45pm.

I was on the courtesy motorcycle, the initial PCN was redirected to my name and was sent to my address.

The PCN was issued to me on the 13/Dec/2024 which I received on 18/Dec/2024.

I was on the courtesy motorcycle, the initial PCN was redirected to my name and was sent to my address.


No such thing as a 'courtesy' vehicle in this process, you either had a vehicle hired to you by a vehicle hire company in respect of which you'd signed a 'statement of liability' or you didn't.

Pl forget about the contravention, this doesn't enter into matters until we know who in law is liable to pay any penalty.

So, to whom was the PCN addressed? You by name or what?

Do you have a 'hire agreement' and if so we need to see it pl.

Also this concerns a London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003 PCN. There is no informal representation stage with these. The person or entity to whom the PCN is addressed can only submit a "formal" representation.

And any such representation should be made using the instructions on the PCN. You haven't posted up all of the PCN pages but does the PCN say that you can submit a representation to the email address environment@lambeth.gov.uk? I doubt that it does. And did you supply your name and address as well as the PCN number and car reg?

The "rejection" is not a proper Notice of Rejection of your representation, even though it implies it is, as it does not provide any details as to how to appeal the matter to the Independent Adjudicator.

It is a response to your follow up phone calls. Please post up any missing pages.

Please answer HCA's questions above?


Sometimes Barbour Logic is intermittent. environment@lambeth is acceptable.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Since the OP raised the question: "They also hold our personal information and this could even affect our personal credit score."

This won't affect your credit score. It's not like a County Court Judgement which would be recorded with the credit rating agencies.

What happens next or rather what to do about it depends on whose name and address is on the PCN and the Charge Certificate. And the hire agreement, if there is one.


@marie can we please see all sides of all pages of the notice of rejection? Please leave the date of the notice visible. If what you've said is correct, this should be a really easy appeal and you don't need to bother with the TEC process at all, but I need to see the NOR in full to be sure.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

No wonder I did not realise I had so many replies,
I was checking for the notifications in the messages in this account
and not my own email account.
This is how bad my brain is at the moment.

@DWMB2
Thanks for moving the post to the right forum, I did read the ‘Before posting’ but could not take in so much information…

@Hippocrates
Thank you very much
I have signed the petition before posting

@H C Andersen
The vehicle was hired to me and I signed the ‘Agreement’ I assume the liability is with in the agreement as standard.

This particular PCN was addressed to me by my name and address as I received at my address on 2024.12.18.

“ Add image of Hire agreement ”

Hire Agreement start date 2024.10.23
   https://imgur.com/a/MWzQmT7

@Enceladus

Was it my misunderstanding and shot myself in the head?

I was on-line to try to informally challenge it which was not possible. Therefore I made a phone call to explain believing that the reason why I was not able to submit the informal challenge via on-line was because the name of the PCN was changed to me from the hire company.
I was given the email address by the lady I spoke on the phone on 020 7926 9000

In the email I sent on the next day of receiving the email,
I supplied
   PCN number - which they would have all the info attached within their system
   Reg number
   My name

I was trying to do as much as I could with my confused brain with headache and Tinnitus and I might not had composed the email correctly.
I have been having problems with processing words, language and massed of information. And still dealing with the insurance company, NHS and Chiropractor etc.

I have emailed, called, posted, plus I have submitted on-line challenge which on 2025.02.23 was rejected on
I have to go through by timeline to upload as much as I can.
My apology for taking time due to my brain which gets confused and lose focus then get headache.

“ Add all pages ”

PCN Received 2024.12.18  (Dated 2024.12.13)
   https://imgur.com/a/pcn-received-2024-12-18-dated-2024-12-13-p8Bfbi5

CC Received 2025.02.04 (Dated 2025.01.28)
   https://imgur.com/a/iX5Bmz6

Letter (Rejected?) Received 2025.02.18 (Dated 2025.02.11)
   https://imgur.com/a/vUcAX7l

Letter with copies of my previous letters Received 2025.03.03 (Dated 2025.02.21)
   https://imgur.com/a/pRpE0Eh

Letter Received 2025.03.03 (Dated 2025.02.27)
   https://imgur.com/a/1jSrWMn

@Enceladus
I read it somewhere it would go to county court at some point? And affect my license points or something. I might have read it wrong knowing my brain…

@cp8759
“ Add notice of rejection “ all pages
Added above,
Additional document : Online Challenge Submission
   https://imgur.com/a/t5RDMv7

Apologise for taking so long to reply, it is really hard.

I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Does your 'hiring agreement' contain all of the following particulars?

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2000/2546/schedule/2/made

- £200+ per day for hire!!
« Last Edit: March 07, 2025, 08:45:50 am by H C Andersen »

@H C Andersen

Thanks

Yes it is at high cost as the insurance dealt with the hire bike.
They supply new motorbike and new helmet.

What I understood was that:
They cannot take any risk to supply second hand vehicles in case there is any issues with the vehicle they won't take any chances for the vehicle they send out breaking down and have any accident.

They probably sell the used motorbike after its been used.

I wish not to make things even more complicated to dispute against the hire firm. If I could avoid...
I believe they have all that they need in the file as they do check the licence online with the DVLA and they have taken my Licence number to check.
My insurance and all they needed they had added Pillion cover on top for this hire (with age restriction).

A.    Particulars of person signing statement of liability*

YES : Full Name.
YES : Date of birth.
YES : Permanent Address.
YES : Address at time of hiring (if different from 3 above and stay is likely to be more than two months from date of hiring).
YES : Details of Driving licence - as FULL
N/A : a). Country where issued - as it is UK
NO : b). Serial number or Driver number - as DVLA Licence check Completed
NO : c). Date of expiry (which should be no later than date specified in B7 below). - as it is answers Licence Expired : NO - date not specified.

* Where the statement of liability is in Part II of form H, the full name and address of the person by or on whose behalf the statement of liability was signed should be supplied together with the date on which it was signed. If the person taking possession of the vehicle is not the same as the person by or on whose behalf the statement was signed, the full name of that person should also be supplied (if known).

B.    Particulars of hiring agreements

YES : Registration mark of vehicle hired under the hiring agreement.
YES : Make and model of vehicle hired under the hiring agreement.
N/A : Registration mark of any vehicle substituted for the above during the currency of the hiring agreement. - as supplied only 1 vehicle stated above.
N/A : Make and model of any vehicle substituted for the above during the currency of the hiring agreement.
N/A : Time and date of any change of vehicle.
YES : Time and date of commencement of original hiring period.
NO : Expected time and date of expiry of original hiring period. - as it was depended on the insurance company.
N/A : Time and date of commencement of authorised extension of hiring period.
N/A : Expected time and date of expiry of authorised extension of hiring period.
N/A : Actual time and date of return of vehicle (or when vehicle returned out of hours time and date on which vehicle-hire firm next opened for business). - as the agreement was signed before I returned the vehicle few month later.


@cp8759

Thank you so much for this, I have read and prepared the PE3 form.



As my Charge Certificate is dated 2025.01.28, and I have been back and forth with the Lambeth Parking Services,I have no idea when the date I am supposed to submit PE3.

Lambeth Parking Services - view PCN

https://pcnevidence.lambeth.gov.uk/pcnonline/index.php



Does this mean I have to check this site everyday?
« Last Edit: March 07, 2025, 11:13:24 am by cp8759 »

@marie every day is a bit over the top, once a week is fine. As soon as the amount goes up to £205, go and get the form sworn and then email it to tec@justice.gov.uk
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

@cp8759

Thank you so much for helping me with all those.

For the allocation and the angle of all those time restricted pedestrian zone are placed unfairly to the drivers as the signs are not informing the vehicle approaching to the entrance of the street.

Just for information: example of better sign-post

There is a new sign-post placed at some of the junctions which I found at least 1 (374 South Circular Road, Wandsworth)
Entering from Upper Richmond Road into Dryburgh Road.
Location : https://maps.app.goo.gl/2khamyL2QnSdkv3B7





Which seems to be more sufficient

1). Slightly into the Dryburgh Road even If missed No turning sign.
2). It will or should be LED lighted at the time restricted even if the driver had no access to a watch.