Author Topic: Croydon Contravention 06 - Parked without clearly displaying a valid pay and display ticket  (Read 401 times)

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gosha

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Hi all,


This Fri night, I got a PCN after parking the car and searching for the Pay and display. It was rainy and my card was rejected at the meter, so I had to install Ringgo and get the payment done online. My session started at 20:10, and the ticket had been issued four minutes earlier at 20:06. Is there any way to get this unfair ticket removed?



PCN image



Parking receipt:

« Last Edit: March 30, 2024, 09:41:19 pm by cp8759 »

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Incandescent

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So where were you when the PCN was issued ? Whilst time is allowed to pay for parking, it is never a good idea when using PbP to not be at the car-park. A CEO arrives, checks the cars for PbP parking that have no machine ticket, and if no session, issues a PCN, simple, what else should he do ?  However, your narrative indicates you were in the process of paying for the parking, but took a bit longer than normal.  So you need to submit representations that you were engaged in paying for the parking using your phone when the CEO issued the PCN. If they refuse your reps you can take them to adjudication on the matter, but the full PCN penalty will be in play.

gosha

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I was just around the area, and I do not understand how I missed spotting the officer. Can you help me figure what to say as an apology for being 4 minutes late?

Incandescent

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No need for an apology. Just submit representations on the lines of your narrative here, namely ticket machine would not take your card, so you then used the pay-by-phone alternative for the car park, (Ringo). State that all this took place at or near the ticket machine, so you did not see the CEO arrive, or else you would have informed him that you were engaged in buying a parking session on your phone. Point out that it is a well established principle of parking enforcement that time must be allowed for purchasing a parking session, and that payment was made for parking.  Post up your draft here for review and then their response when you get it. include a copy of the Ringo parking session in your reps.

H C Andersen

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IMO, it's the wrong contravention.

It is self-evident that if drivers are permitted to purchase parking rights by phone then everyone who does would 'fail' to display a valid pay and display ticket or voucher.

So, either they've made a mistake or you did and location 19515 has nothing to do with the restriction applying to where you were parked.

gosha

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Thanks, this is the draft I intend to send. Please can you help me correct it to a formal version.
Quote
I am writing to formally contest the Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) numbered [Insert PCN Number], issued on 22 Feb 2024 at Croydon. I respectfully request a review and subsequent cancellation of this charge based on mitigating circumstances surrounding the incident.

On the mentioned date, I encountered technical difficulties with the physical parking meter, which prevented me from completing the transaction promptly. I had every intention of complying with parking regulations and have purchased a parking ticket at 2010 through Ringo. Compounded by inclement weather, I was compelled to seek shelter to use the RingGo application on my mobile device to secure parking payment, which was successfully processed at 20:10.

Regrettably, during this brief and unforeseen delay, a penalty notice was issued at 20:06, a mere four minutes prior to my payment confirmation. I believe this situation constitutes a reasonable exception, as the delay was minimal and resulted from circumstances beyond my control.

Had I been aware of the parking enforcement officer's presence, I would have sought their understanding and assistance in resolving the payment issue. It is under these exceptional circumstances that I appeal to your sense of fairness and request that the penalty charge be waived.

I have attached evidence of the parking payment made through the RingGo application, which substantiates my claim of intending to comply with parking regulations promptly.

I trust you will find my appeal reasonable and consider the extenuating factors presented. I am hopeful for a favorable resolution and am willing to provide any further information required.

Thank you for your attention to this matter.

Sincerely,

gosha

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This is my latest version, please give feedback.

Quote
On the said day, I arrived at the parking spot right about the same time as the start of the observation period mentioned in the PCN. I had an issue with my card at the machine, so I used the Ringgo app installed on my wife's mobile to pay for the parking ticket. My ticket starts from 20:10 and runs till 21:10.

I was not very far from the car all the while and do not understand how I missed seeing the officer. If not, I could have explained the situation to him/her.

I also have attached evidence from my Google timeline to show that my presence at my friends' apartment nearby commenced at around the same time when the ticket was issued. This evidence proves I had not parked much earlier and left the car without a ticket.

The council gives a reasonable allowance for people to pay for parking after their arrival. In this instance, my parking receipt and my Google timeline prove I have not committed a parking violation by leaving my car without a permit for a substantial period of time.

I request you to consider the situation and evidence and cancel the ticket.

H C Andersen

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Your draft goes to mitigation only.

Let me expand on my previous post.

The contravention has NOTHING to do with payment as such, it is that a ticket or voucher was not displayed which can and does happen whether payment is made or not. Therefore, as regards the alleged contravention your receipt is not relevant.

So:
If payment by RingGo is permitted then the contravention is wrong because display is not a condition of parking AND you paid, if you selected the correct numeric location, or

If payment by RingGo is not allowed then the contravention is correct and even if you paid it must have been for a different location.

GSV suggests that all parking places are P&D or pay by phone.

You've hidden your VRM so we cannot access the council's photos.

Pl either post your VRM or the council's photos.

Don't submit your draft pl.

gosha

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Hi, thanks for the heads-up. I have attached the council's photos in this link. There are no videos to the PCN.

I have till this Friday for submitting the appeal with the discount in place.

mrmustard

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Forget the discount. Your aim is to pay nothing. Your challenge: The contravention as alleged did not occur as one can pay by phone at that location, as I did, and one gets nothing to display.
I help you pro bono (for free). I only ask that a donation is made to the North London Hospice if you can afford it and if you win. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless.

cp8759

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@gosha did you submit a representation and if so, can you show us a copy of what you sent?

Your case is very similar to Lydia Russo v Plymouth City Council (PL00004-2401, 12 March 2024) which I successfully argued the other week, it originated from this thread.

I would definitely not be paying this so if they've reoffered the discount, please don't be tempted to pay.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2024, 12:01:39 am by cp8759 »
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

gosha

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I have received a notice of rejection - now intend to wait for the formal challenge.

This is the response received. My representation is as written in the earlier post above dated March 3 2024.

Quote
Thank you for writing to us. We have carefully considered what you say but we have decided not to cancel your Penalty Charge Notice (PCN)
 
You were issued a PCN for not having a Pay and Display ticket that was both valid and clearly displayed. Even if you have a Pay and Display ticket, you have to display it so that a Civil Enforcement Officer (CEO) can see all its details.

The Civil Enforcement Officer checks the Ringo system and pay and display machine for users before issuing the Penalty Charge Notice. If no-one is observed at the machine, the Officer proceeds to issue the Penalty Charge Notice. No further grace time is required to be given. While I sympathise with your comments I regret we are unable to cancel a PCN on this basis.


You have these choices:

You can pay the discount charge of £40.00 if your payment reaches us within 14 days of the date of this letter. If you choose to pay the discounted amount of £40.00 then the matter will be closed and you will have lost the right to appeal to the Environment & Traffic Adjudicators.
You can pay £80.00 within 28 days of the date your PCN was issued.
The registered keeper can formally challenge the PCN after the Notice to owner (NTO) is issued. The registered keeper will automatically receive the NTO if the PCN has not been paid within 28 days of being issued. The NTO offers the registered keeper the chance to formally challenge the PCN or pay the full £80.00. If the registered keeper decides to formally challenge the PCN, they should wait until the NTO arrives.
How to pay:

by phone 0345 3000 614 (24hr) touchtone using a debit or credit card (Visa, MasterCard, Delta, Maestro, Solo and Electron). Please have your PCN number and vehicle registration number to hand.
online at www.croydon.gov.uk/transportandstreet and select parking fine payment. Pay using a debit or credit card (Visa, MasterCard, Delta, Maestro, Solo and Electron). Please have your PCN number and vehicle registration number to hand.
in person at any Post Office using cash, cheque or debit card (Visa, MasterCard, Delta, Maestro, Solo and Electron). Or by cash only at any outlet displaying the Paypoint Logo. You will need either your PCN or a letter containing your PCN number and barcode. It is very important that you retain your receipt as a record of your payment.


 

cp8759

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@gosha let us know when you get the notice to owner and we'll help you draft a formal representation.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

gosha

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Dear all,

I finally received the Notice to owner yesterday. The link is here. Will be grateful if you can all help me fight this unfair penalty and get justice.


cp8759

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Here you go:

Dear London Borough of Croydon,

The contravention alleged on the PCN is "Parked without displaying a valid pay & display ticket or voucher", but it is not physically possible to display a ringgo payment. Even if a valid cashless payment permit is in force, this will not be displayed. Given the RingGo payment facility you have put in place, the allegation stated on the PCN is essentially meaningless.

In any event at the material time I was engaged in purchasing my parking session. I first attempted to buy a session from the pay and display machine, but the machine did not accept my card payment. I then had to resort to using the cashless payment option, but this was not completed until four minutes after the CEO had issued the PCN. As I was in the process of purchasing the parking session and motorists are allowed the time that it is actually necessary to complete this process, the alleged contravention could not have occurred even if the cashless payment system resulted in the production of something that could be physically displayed on the dashboard.

Yours faithfully,

Send this via the council website and make sure to keep a screenshot of the confirmation page.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order