Author Topic: No PCN received, only Charge Certificate City of London; code: 52M only buses & bikes allowed between 7am-7pm, Cornhill (Read 319 times)

Barbicangal · « **on:** March 02, 2025, 08:06:39 pm »

@cp8759

I received a Charge Certificate yesterday (March 1, 2025). It was dated February 28, 2025. I don't dispute that I did this as it was very dark and I didn't see the sign but there is one as you enter from one side, so I'm assuming there was a sign where I entered.

My issue is the fact I NEVER received the PCN! On my life, I never received this PCN.

Whenever I've had a ticket (only had about 5 in 30 years of driving), I've paid it straight away, I've never seen a Charge Certificate until now. I actually thought it was a PCN just without photos which was strange.

Front page: https://imgur.com/a/XeIcmqH

Back page: https://imgur.com/a/TbvyK6B

Google Street View link: https://www.instantstreetview.com/@51.513441,-0.084237,243.07h,-6.53p,1z,I45sMi_oDwG3zmJGhLAyhQ

Is it worth writing and asking for the PCN now and seeing if they would reduce the amount back to £130 from £195 or shall I just assume that they can just say they posted the PCN and it got lost in the post. In the meantime, they will keep increasing the amount?

Thank you for reading this.

Enceladus · « **Reply #1 on:** March 02, 2025, 08:16:12 pm »

There is a standard procedure guide for this, see here. Wait for the next stage which is the Order for Recovery (of unpaid penalty charge). This will add the £10 court fee to the charge. You can then submit the Statutory Declaration which will be attached to the OfR notice. The Traffic Enforcement Centre at Northampton County Court will issue an order revoking the OfR and cancelling the Charge Cert. The City will then have to re-serve the PCN in order to continue to enforce.

Incandescent · « **Reply #2 on:** March 02, 2025, 08:21:33 pm »

The amount can only now increase by £10, which is the fee for registering the debt at the Traffic Enforcement Centre, (TEC) at Northampton. When CoL does this, they must send you an Order for Recovery, and also include the form to submit a Statutory Declaration to TEC that you never received the original PCN. You fill in the form (PE3), get it witnessed, (free at councty court, or circa £10 at a solicitors), and send it off. It's best to send it off electronically if you can.
TEC will order the CC and OfR to be cancelled, and you return to the PCN stage, at which point you can pay or appeal.

Barbicangal · « **Reply #3 on:** March 02, 2025, 08:25:04 pm »

Quote from: Enceladus on March 02, 2025, 08:16:12 pm

There is a standard procedure guide for this, see here. Wait for the next stage which is the Order for Recovery (of unpaid penalty charge). This will add the £10 court fee to the charge. You can then submit the Statutory Declaration which will be attached to the OfR notice. The Traffic Enforcement Centre at Northampton County Court will issue an order revoking the OfR and cancelling the Charge Cert. The City will then have to re-serve the PCN in order to continue to enforce.

Thank you, that's a huge relief.

Barbicangal · « **Reply #4 on:** March 02, 2025, 08:26:04 pm »

Quote from: Incandescent on March 02, 2025, 08:21:33 pm

The amount can only now increase by £10, which is the fee for registering the debt at the Traffic Enforcement Centre, (TEC) at Northampton. When CoL does this, they must send you an Order for Recovery, and also include the form to submit a Statutory Declaration to TEC that you never received the original PCN. You fill in the form (PE3), get it witnessed, (free at councty court, or circa £10 at a solicitors), and send it off. It's best to send it off electronically if you can.
TEC will order the CC and OfR to be cancelled, and you return to the PCN stage, at which point you can pay or appeal.

Thank you, I will do just that. If today was a Monday, I would have rung the CoL instead of finding this wonderful forum

I'm so glad I did

Enceladus · « **Reply #5 on:** March 02, 2025, 09:19:42 pm »

Please have a read of the READ THIS FIRST - **BEFORE POSTING YOUR CASE!** sticky post at the top of the forum.

Please post up the Charge Cert, just redact your name & address and please leave the vehicle reg and PCN number visible.

This concerns a contravention of the Bank Junction scheme. There is one contravention for exiting Cornhill onto Bank. There is a separate contravention for entering Cornhill from the Leadenhall / Gracechurch / Bishopsgate junction. There have been some recent changes to the scheme so your case will require further investigation and for that we will need the video.

John U.K. · « **Reply #6 on:** March 03, 2025, 08:50:29 am »

For convenience:

Barbicangal · « **Reply #7 on:** March 03, 2025, 10:38:28 am »

Quote from: John U.K. on March 03, 2025, 08:50:29 am

For convenience:

Thanks, John U.K.

Hippocrates · « **Reply #8 on:** March 03, 2025, 11:05:44 am »

Quote from: Incandescent on March 02, 2025, 08:21:33 pm

The amount can only now increase by £10, which is the fee for registering the debt at the Traffic Enforcement Centre, (TEC) at Northampton. When CoL does this, they must send you an Order for Recovery, and also include the form to submit a Statutory Declaration to TEC that you never received the original PCN. You fill in the form (PE3), get it witnessed, (free at councty court, or circa £10 at a solicitors), and send it off. It's best to send it off electronically if you can.
TEC will order the CC and OfR to be cancelled, and you return to the PCN stage, at which point you can pay or appeal.

+1. You need to make an appointment with the court and sign in front of the court witness. As Incandescent says, copy it and send to the TEC via e mail. When this part of the process gets resolved, I am happy to represent you.I have had success with this authority and at this location. Looking forward to the PCN because of this:

ETA Register of Appeals

Register kept under Regulation 20 of the Road Traffic (Parking Adjudicators) (London) Regulations 1993, as amended and Regulation 17 of the Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Representations and Appeals) (England) Regulations 2022.

Case Details

Case reference 224005811A

Appellant Gaurav Aidasani

Authority City of London

VRM LD09OXU

PCN Details

PCN CL01575696

Contravention date 28 Dec 2023

Contravention time 18:46:00

Contravention location Cornhill

Penalty amount GBP 130.00

Contravention Fail comply prohibition on certain types vehicle

Referral date

Decision Date 16 Apr 2024

Adjudicator Andrew Harman

Appeal decision Appeal allowed

Direction

cancel the Penalty Charge Notice.

Reasons

Mr Morgan, for the appellant, appeared before me today at Chancery Exchange.

The council did not attend the hearing.

I reserved my decision.

The contravention alleged in these proceedings is that this vehicle at Cornhill failed to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle (code 52).

On the council's evidence of signage this route is restricted to

buses and cycles 7am-7pm Mondays to Fridays.

The PCN was not, however, issued for the alleged contravention of using a route restricted to buses and cycles.

A prohibition on motor vehicles must be signed with a No Entry to motor vehicles sign. That is not the position here.

I acknowledge the council's submissions on the point but I am not satisfied that a code 52 PCN can be used for what I find to be a code 33 contravention. The signage for the restriction must correspond with the alleged contravention on the PCN.

I am not satisfied for this reason that the contravention as alleged by the council occurred.

I make no finding in respect of any other issue raised by either party to the proceedings but for the reason given the appeal is allowed.

*******

I used this case too:

ETA Register of Appeals

Register kept under Regulation 20 of the Road Traffic (Parking Adjudicators) (London) Regulations 1993, as amended and Regulation 17 of the Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Representations and Appeals) (England) Regulations 2022.

Case Details

Case reference 2230425189

Appellant Mateusz Wojcik

Authority City of London

VRM EU22LYV

PCN Details

PCN CL01220941

Contravention date 11 Aug 2023

Contravention time 08:07:00

Contravention location Cornhill

Penalty amount GBP 130.00

Contravention Fail comply prohibition on certain types vehicle

Referral date

Decision Date 26 Oct 2023

Adjudicator Sean Stanton-Dunne

Appeal decision Appeal allowed

Direction cancel the Penalty Charge Notice and the Notice to Owner and refund the penalty charge paid.

Reasons

Mr Wojcik has attended the hearing today in person.

This PCN was issued for the alleged contravention of failing to comply with a prohibition on motor vehicles in Cornhill.

The signage in the library images submitted by City of London is for a route restricted to buses and cycles between the hours of 7am and 7pm Mondays to Fridays. This PCN was not, however, issued for the alleged contravention of using a route restricted to buses and cycles. A prohibition on motor vehicles must be signed with a No Entry to motor vehicles sign. The bus and cycle route signs in the City of London's library images are not No Entry to motor vehicle signs. I do not accept that a code 52 PCN can be used for what is clearly a code 33 contravention. The signage for the restriction must correspond with the alleged contravention on the PCN.

I find for this reason that the alleged contravention did not occur.

Also, there may well be an issue with their PCN and one other. Meanwhile, relax and follow the advice here.

Barbicangal · « **Reply #9 on:** March 03, 2025, 11:56:15 am »

Quote from: Hippocrates on March 03, 2025, 11:05:44 am

Quote from: Incandescent on March 02, 2025, 08:21:33 pm
The amount can only now increase by £10, which is the fee for registering the debt at the Traffic Enforcement Centre, (TEC) at Northampton. When CoL does this, they must send you an Order for Recovery, and also include the form to submit a Statutory Declaration to TEC that you never received the original PCN. You fill in the form (PE3), get it witnessed, (free at councty court, or circa £10 at a solicitors), and send it off. It's best to send it off electronically if you can.
TEC will order the CC and OfR to be cancelled, and you return to the PCN stage, at which point you can pay or appeal.

+1. You need to make an appointment with the court and sign in front of the court witness. As Incandescent says, copy it and send to the TEC via e mail. When this part of the process gets resolved, I am happy to represent you.I have had success with this authority and at this location.

Thank you SO MUCH, Hippocrates! You have made my day. I haven't slept well since getting Charge Certificate but will sleep well tonight, thanks to you

Hippocrates · « **Reply #10 on:** March 03, 2025, 12:19:54 pm »

This is why they call me the father of medicine! A simple request: please sign my petition and pass on before you go to bed tonight.

stamfordman · « **Reply #11 on:** March 03, 2025, 12:28:30 pm »

Are the name and address on the charge certificate correct and are there any post problems.

In any case you don't want the order for recovery going missing which is why we recommend checking in with the Traffic Enforcement Centre at intervals to check if the debt has been registered.

Barbicangal · « **Reply #12 on:** March 03, 2025, 12:28:47 pm »

Quote from: Hippocrates on March 03, 2025, 12:19:54 pm

This is why they call me the father of medicine! A simple request: please sign my petition and pass on before you go to bed tonight.

haha! Yes, perfect name for you! Petition Signed, sealed and delivered

Barbicangal · « **Reply #13 on:** March 03, 2025, 12:30:35 pm »

Quote from: stamfordman on March 03, 2025, 12:28:30 pm

Are the name and address on the charge certificate correct and are there any post problems.

In any case you don't want the order for recovery going missing which is why we recommend checking in with the Traffic Enforcement Centre at intervals to check if the debt has been registered.

Ok, will do, thank you.

Free Traffic Legal Advice

Author Topic: No PCN received, only Charge Certificate City of London; code: 52M only buses & bikes allowed between 7am-7pm, Cornhill (Read 319 times)

Barbicangal

No PCN received, only Charge Certificate City of London; code: 52M only buses & bikes allowed between 7am-7pm, Cornhill

Enceladus

Re: No PCN received, only Charge Certificate City of London; code: 52M only buses & bikes allowed between 7am-7pm, Cornh

Incandescent

Re: No PCN received, only Charge Certificate City of London; code: 52M only buses & bikes allowed between 7am-7pm, Cornh

Barbicangal

Re: No PCN received, only Charge Certificate City of London; code: 52M only buses & bikes allowed between 7am-7pm, Cornh

Barbicangal

Re: No PCN received, only Charge Certificate City of London; code: 52M only buses & bikes allowed between 7am-7pm, Cornh

Enceladus

Re: No PCN received, only Charge Certificate City of London; code: 52M only buses & bikes allowed between 7am-7pm, Cornh

John U.K.

Re: No PCN received, only Charge Certificate City of London; code: 52M only buses & bikes allowed between 7am-7pm, Cornh

Barbicangal

Re: No PCN received, only Charge Certificate City of London; code: 52M only buses & bikes allowed between 7am-7pm, Cornh

Hippocrates

Re: No PCN received, only Charge Certificate City of London; code: 52M only buses & bikes allowed between 7am-7pm, Cornh

Barbicangal

Re: No PCN received, only Charge Certificate City of London; code: 52M only buses & bikes allowed between 7am-7pm, Cornh

Hippocrates

Re: No PCN received, only Charge Certificate City of London; code: 52M only buses & bikes allowed between 7am-7pm, Cornh

stamfordman

Re: No PCN received, only Charge Certificate City of London; code: 52M only buses & bikes allowed between 7am-7pm, Cornh

Barbicangal

Re: No PCN received, only Charge Certificate City of London; code: 52M only buses & bikes allowed between 7am-7pm, Cornh

Barbicangal

Re: No PCN received, only Charge Certificate City of London; code: 52M only buses & bikes allowed between 7am-7pm, Cornh