Free Traffic Legal Advice

Well, you have something on signage to put into a representation. Not just the advance warning sign, but the actual signs at the start of the restriction look as if they would be obscured on approach. However, don't expect them to roll over and cancel the PCN on reading your reps. Councils rely on sending out Fob-Off letters, knowing most people then cough-up not wanting to risk the additional dosh of the other 50% of the PCN penalty they might have to pay if they lose at adjudication. That said, there are no additional costs in taking the council to adjudication, just the full PCN penalty if one loses.

Incandescent you are right that the actual sign on the right side on the mouth of Moss Hall Grove might be obscured, but for a driver taking the right turn from Nether St, it's the sign on the left side that matters, and that sign is not obscured.

If I'm getting this wrong then happy to be corrected.

No you're not wrong, but why have two signs if one will "do". The fact is that not seeing an advance sign means a motorist could start turning right with a car approaching in the other direction but normally in perfect safety. What is he supposed to do if he sees the signs, jam his brakes on and cause a collision ?

Addendum
Also see this London Tribunals case
2240301003

Incandescent I had no luck searching for case 2240301003 on this page?

Try https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/about/registers-appeals

Scroll down and hit 'Access Statutory Registers'
Scroll down to 'ETA' and hit 'Search'
Enter case number.
Et voila!

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As it happens, CP conveniently posted the case here yesterday

I was the representative in that case.  I will draft something in a minute or so. I cannot access the documents via dropbox;  but....


Dear Council

I make this formal representation against PCN            :

The contravention did not occur as:

1. You have failed to carry out your responsibilities under LATOR to maintain the signage and curb the growth of the vegetation which renders the advanced signage invisible.

2. Similarly,the plate on the left hand sign is covered by foliage.

In light of the above, please take the eminently sensible course of action and cancel the said PCN.

Yours faithfully

Reg. keeper

Address

******

I would not cite the case v WF as it is not relevant at this stage.

Modified my post.

Quote from: Hippocrates on August 09, 2024, 12:43:36 pm

I was the representative in that case.  I will draft something in a minute or so. I cannot access the documents via dropbox;  but....


Dear Council

I make this formal representation against PCN            :

The contravention did not occur as:

1. You have failed to carry out your responsibilities under LATOR to maintain the signage and curb the growth of the vegetation which renders the advanced signage invisible.

2. Similarly,the plate on the left hand right hand sign is covered by foliage.

In light of the above, please take the eminently sensible course of action and cancel the said PCN.

Yours faithfully

Reg. keeper

Address

******

I would not cite the case v WF as it is not relevant at this stage.

Isn't the obscured entry sign on the right-hand side ?

Sorry you are correct. I have fixed it.

*****

Re the WF case won on Wednesday, this was part of the submissions to the Tribunal:

TSM Chapter One
 
1.3.2. In order to achieve safe and efficient operation of a highway network, it is essential that all signing provided is necessary, clear and unambiguous, and gives its message to road users at the appropriate time. The message must be quickly and easily understood at the point it is needed; neither too soon that the information might be forgotten, nor too late for the safe performance of any necessary manoeuvre.
 
 
TSM Chapter Three
 
 
1.8.6.  There are likely to be some situations where two signs will still be preferable, such as on the side road at junctions, and where obstruction of a sign by other vehicles is possible. Drivers should not be placed in the situation where they might not see the sign before starting to turn at a road junction.

The latter as they have to prove their case.