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Waltham Forest - Whipps Cross Road - E11 Bus lane contravention

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Re: Waltham Forest - Whipps Cross Road - E11 Bus lane contravention
Reply #46 on:
#47
Quote from: Glitch on November 15, 2023, 08:37:21 am
If you need any photos or measurements let me know.

They have repainted all the road markings around the Green Man roundabout recently, but the end of the bus lane markings are untouched and look worse than ever.

I live nearby too and it is one of those bus lanes that makes no sense at all.
There`s only bus
- 257 during the day which runs every 8 minutes - 7 to 8 buses per hour.
- 55 at night for 4.5 hours - with 2 buses per hour.

 >:(
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Re: Waltham Forest - Whipps Cross Road - E11 Bus lane contravention
Reply #47 on:
#48
I guess it is me who is representing!  The NOR indicates they know the procedures so I do expect them to turn up.
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@Incandescent!

I AM ABLE TO TAKE ON MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. I HATE RETIREMENT.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
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Re: Waltham Forest - Whipps Cross Road - E11 Bus lane contravention
Reply #48 on:
#49
Quote from: Hippocrates on November 15, 2023, 03:32:35 pm
I guess it is me who is representing!  The NOR indicates they know the procedures so I do expect them to turn up.

The NOR does not state this @ 5(a)(i):

London Local Authorities Act 1996
legislation.gov.uk


Rejection of representations against enforcement notice

5 Where any representations are made under paragraph 2 above but the council concerned do not accept that a ground has been established, the notice served under sub-paragraph (10) of the said paragraph 2 (in this Schedule referred to as “the notice of rejection”) must—

(a)state that a charge certificate may be served under paragraph 8 below unless before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of the notice of rejection—
(i)the penalty charge is paid;

The 17 days deadline is most interesting.
Last Edit: November 16, 2023, 07:11:43 am by Hippocrates
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@Incandescent!

I AM ABLE TO TAKE ON MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. I HATE RETIREMENT.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: Waltham Forest - Whipps Cross Road - E11 Bus lane contravention
Reply #49 on:
#50
Quote from: Glitch on November 15, 2023, 08:37:21 am
If you need any photos or measurements let me know.

They have repainted all the road markings around the Green Man roundabout recently, but the end of the bus lane markings are untouched and look worse than ever.

An FOIR needs to be formulated pronto.
Logged
@Incandescent!

I AM ABLE TO TAKE ON MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. I HATE RETIREMENT.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: Waltham Forest - Whipps Cross Road - E11 Bus lane contravention
Reply #51 on:
#52
Please see your messages.  And then e mail me back.  Thanks.
Logged
@Incandescent!

I AM ABLE TO TAKE ON MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. I HATE RETIREMENT.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: Waltham Forest - Whipps Cross Road - E11 Bus lane contravention
Reply #52 on:
#53
Just sent a message to you. 
Logged
@Incandescent!

I AM ABLE TO TAKE ON MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. I HATE RETIREMENT.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: Waltham Forest - Whipps Cross Road - E11 Bus lane contravention
Reply #53 on:
#54
Quote from: Incandescent on July 31, 2023, 10:32:47 pm
Quote from: ST_2023 on July 31, 2023, 03:16:26 pm
Quote from: Incandescent on July 31, 2023, 11:28:08 am
There is also no 20 metre rule. 

At one time the TPT used such a figure, but there is nothing in the legislation or regulations, it is up to individual adjudicators whether to consider a de minimis argument or not. As far as I know, London Tribunals and before them, PATAS, never mentioned any rule.  De minimis is subjective, so one adjudicator may well disagree with another.
20 metre rule argument was used in this case, I thought that might have some importance, but if that is going to be detrimental, happy to remove it.

Sarah-Jane Mendonca v London Borough of Waltham Forest (2210480049, 06 September 2021)
Thanks for putting up this link. So there are people around who consider there IS a 20 metre rule, but it is nowhere to be seen in any of the legislation or regulations. The key line of the decision is this: -
Quote
"There is a 20 metre rule that should normally be observed before any PCN should be issued"
Well, this is the first time I suspect any council has heard about this so called rule ! Interesting, though,  because it can be quoted to support trivial (de minimis) intrusions into bus lanes.

When this decision was made, the same adjudicator was unaware of the camera authorisation issue I highly suspect.
Logged
@Incandescent!

I AM ABLE TO TAKE ON MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. I HATE RETIREMENT.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: Waltham Forest - Whipps Cross Road - E11 Bus lane contravention
Reply #54 on:
#55
Quote from: ST_2023 on August 22, 2023, 02:32:07 pm
Hi all, I have received a response from LBWF today via post following my appeal. Please see attached. What are the chances of further going to tribunal and winning this?
Solid white line which runs to the end of the bus lane!
Logged
@Incandescent!

I AM ABLE TO TAKE ON MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. I HATE RETIREMENT.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: Waltham Forest - Whipps Cross Road - E11 Bus lane contravention
Reply #55 on:
#56
@ Glitch.  Please can I take you up on your offer re photos?  You have my e mail address.  Thanks.
Logged
@Incandescent!

I AM ABLE TO TAKE ON MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. I HATE RETIREMENT.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: Waltham Forest - Whipps Cross Road - E11 Bus lane contravention
Reply #56 on:
#57
Yes. Anything in particular?

I'm thinking a close up of the gap in the line, hopefully with an accurate measurement thrown in.

A view from the last 20 metres towards the lights.

The refreshed road markings at the lights.
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Re: Waltham Forest - Whipps Cross Road - E11 Bus lane contravention
Reply #57 on:
#58
Quote from: Glitch on November 23, 2023, 10:04:53 am
Yes. Anything in particular?

I'm thinking a close up of the gap in the line, hopefully with an accurate measurement thrown in.

A view from the last 20 metres towards the lights.

The refreshed road markings at the lights.

Anything and everything that will help the case please.  Cheers up front!  Much appreciated.
Logged
@Incandescent!

I AM ABLE TO TAKE ON MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. I HATE RETIREMENT.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: Waltham Forest - Whipps Cross Road - E11 Bus lane contravention
Reply #59 on:
#60
You are a star! ;D Many thanks.
Logged
@Incandescent!

I AM ABLE TO TAKE ON MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. I HATE RETIREMENT.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
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