Hi folks,
In one of the poorest council in East London, one yellow box junction has recently been launched with false hope to discipline the drivers. Usually you can stay on this box to turn right while giving the clear path to incoming traffic. But how about T junction where there will be no incoming traffic except the traffic on your right & left. Can you legally stay on yellow box junction while letting the traffic on your left to pass before you turn right.
where? GSV? or any photos?
I think I see what he means. Apologies if I've completely misunderstood.
He's on the 'vertical stroke' of the 'T' and wanting to turn right, and the junction has no lights.
His question is can he enter the box and wait for a gap in the traffic passing left-to-right in front of him before finishing his right turn maneuvre? i.e. the thing we all do all the time which is to go half-way when there's a gap in the traffic coming from your right and wait for a gap on the left, because you'll grow old and die waiting for a gap in both directions.
Highway Code Rule 174:
Box junctions. These have criss-cross yellow lines painted on the road (see ‘Road markings‘). You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right.
So the $64,000 question is what is meant by "oncoming traffic"?
Does it mean only traffic travelling in the opposite direction to you, as implied by the drawing in the HC, or could it include traffic coming at you from your left?
Has this ever been tested in court/tribunal?
Yes, you can enter and stop in a box junction if turning right out of a side street. But you should only do it if:
(1) there are no vehicles approaching from your right,
(2) your view to your left is obscured, ie you cannot clearly see traffic approaching from your left (eg Greek Street j/o Shaftesbury Avenue, London), and
(3) traffic is flowing to your right (ie your exit is clear when you enter the yellow box).
This has been tested at adjudication but I don’t have any case numbers to hand.
Bear in mind also, if you pull out and force a vehicle to stop that’s approaching from your right, then you’ve probably committed a separate offence of ‘driving without reasonable consideration’ for other road users (Road Traffic Act 1988, s3).
Yes, you can enter and stop in a box junction if turning right out of a side street. But you should only do it if:
(1) there are no vehicles approaching from your right,
Is there a recognised distance for "approaching"? Is a vehicle, say, 1km away "approaching"?
(2) your view to your left is obscured, ie you cannot clearly see traffic approaching from your left (eg Greek Street j/o Shaftesbury Avenue, London), and
I don't pull out for only that reason, although the junction where I'm frequently inclined to do so is not a box junction.
Bear in mind also, if you pull out and force a vehicle to stop that’s approaching from your right, then you’ve probably committed a separate offence of ‘driving without reasonable consideration’ for other road users (Road Traffic Act 1988, s3).
Again, what's "approaching"?
I tend not to pull out
knowing that a vehicle to my right will be forced to stop or slow, but it sometimes happens if I'm there for too long and a vehicle arrives from the right that was some distance away when I pulled out.
When turning right out of a side road you should aim to do it in one movement. If you do pull-out half way, then as a general rule there should be no vehicles in view to your right. Basically, “approaching” refers to a vehicle that you can see coming towards you. If traffic is flowing freely, wait for a gap in both traffic flows.
If there is slow-moving/queuing traffic on the main road, then you may need to pull-out half way because your view is limited. Sometimes if traffic is queuing or slow-moving across a junction right-to-left, another driver may create a gap for you to pull-out half-way. If this happens the vehicle would not be deemed to be “approaching”.
It’s all about proportionality and common sense. If there’s no advantage gained by pulling-out half way, then wait for a gap in both traffic flows. Hope this makes sense.
Yes, it makes sense.
And the advantage to be gained in pulling out half way is that drivers coming from the left are far more likely to stop and let you in than if you're waiting off to their right in a side road.
I don't know where you live, but where I do, there are times of day when waiting for a gap in both traffic flows could mean a very long wait indeed. And I mean long. In the absence of anybody stopping to let you out, hours long would not be an exaggeration.
So long as the traffic moving across the horizontal part of the 'T' doesn't become stationary, then it's fine to pull into the box junction and wait to complete the turn.
The legal definition of the offence requires a stop to be due to stationary vehicles so you can't (or rather shouldn't!) be punished for waiting in the box junction if there aren't any stationary vehicles preventing your exit from the box.
If the traffic does become stationary after you enter the box, then it becomes more subjective. I've seen some decisions which say the turn right exemption doesn't apply for a T junction as there's no oncoming traffic. It also depends if you get held up by another vehicle in front also waiting to complete a right turn.
If the traffic does become stationary after you enter the box, then it becomes more subjective. I've seen some decisions which say the turn right exemption doesn't apply for a T junction as there's no oncoming traffic. It also depends if you get held up by another vehicle in front also waiting to complete a right turn.
The law seems clear: "... an oncoming vehicle or
other vehicle which is stationary whilst waiting to complete a right turn."
I agree. For reasons I don't fully understand, several adjudicators do not.
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