Let us say one is driving in heavy traffic, I come up to a set of traffic lights that are on green, after the white line, there is a gap and then a yellow box junction.
I pass the stop line completely but stop outside the yellow box because the other side of the junction is blocked. The lights then turn red. As I have passed the stop line, can I proceed across the box junction when the other side is clear? (Assuming its safe to do so)
Even more important is what if after the stop line, there are no traffic lights after the junction, How is one to know if the lights have changed?
As far as I'm concern are these manoeuvres completely legal?
After all, you can be prosecuted for just moving very very slowly over the white line, and drivers have been done. So I consider the above to be above board and legal.
You cannot pass a red light. You cannot stop in a box junction (except when turning right against traffic). If you are doing neither, and it is safe to do so, why do you think that the presence of the traffic light and the box junction impose some other requirement?
Obviously, if you are stopped at/on the stop line and cannot see the traffic lights, knowing whether or not they are red (or amber) would be a problem. More specifically, it would be your problem.
I pass the stop line completely but stop outside the yellow box because the other side of the junction is blocked. The lights then turn red. As I have passed the stop line, can I proceed across the box junction when the other side is clear? (Assuming its safe to do so)
Yes.
Even more important is what if after the stop line, there are no traffic lights after the junction, How is one to know if the lights have changed?
As far as I am aware it has been held that you cannot be in contravention of a section 36 sign that cannot possibly be seen. But in the UK there's normally a traffic light opposite the junction for exactly this reason.
As far as I'm concern are these manoeuvres completely legal?
Subject to the manoeuvres being otherwise safe, yes they would appear to be.
After all, you can be prosecuted for just moving very very slowly over the white line, and drivers have been done.
I don't understand the relevance of this comment at all?
I was thinking the same yesterday when crawling in heavy traffic on Euston Road. There was no traffic light beyond one junction and I was over the stop line at the start of a box.
I waited until the traffic behind started to move before crossing but it was hardly worth going across anyway as the road was jammed.
You cannot stop in a box junction (except when turning right against traffic).
You can also stop in a box junction due to the presence of pedestrians.
I know that this isn't too common but it's worth pointing out that turning right against traffic isn't the only permissible reason for stopping.
Even more important is what if after the stop line, there are no traffic lights after the junction, How is one to know if the lights have changed?
If you're past the stop line, does it matter?