Author Topic: South Fulham's "Flying Motorcycle" Advance Warning Signs with Blue Backgrounds  (Read 2036 times)

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Across the South Fulham Clean Air Neighbourhood, signs have appeared with the "flying motorcycle" on a blue background with either an arrow pointing to left or right or a distance ahead. These are placed in advance of actual "flying motorcycle" signs (diagram 619). They have proliferated recently, presumably as Hammersmith & Fulham have lost appeals against PCNs for going through "flying motorcycle" signs on the grounds that there is inadequate advance notice.

It appeared to me that these advance signs were not in accordance with TSRGD 2016 and were therefore unlawful. They are based on diagram 818.4 (TSRGD 2016 Schedule 12 Part 28 Item 22) but with an embedded "flying motorcycle" roundel (in this context TSRGD 2016 Schedule 12 Part 20 Item 23). That, however, is not one of the permitted roundels for diagram 818.4; they are items 24 (HGV weight limit), 25 (structural weight limit), 27 (dangerous goods prohibited), 33 (maximum length), 34 (maximum width), and 35 (maximum height) of TSRGD 2016 Schedule 12 Part 20. The only way to get the "flying motorcycle" roundel on a blue background advance sign is if the blue background is for a motorway, which H&F's roads aren't and for which "no motor vehicles" signs make no sense.

I made an FoI request to H&F, pointing out their error and asking for a list of locations where such signs had been placed. Their initial response was to say that the signs were fine. I asked for an internal review. They have now admitted their mistake:
Quote
  • We had interpreted the Traffic Signs Manual (TSM) guidance as allowing the use of the roundel in diagram 818.4.
  • Upon review, we agree that the guidance should be read and interpreted differently.
  • Going forward, the council will no longer use the roundel in advance warning signs with blue backgrounds.

I have followed up by calling on them to stop pursuing PCNs wherever they use these signs as advance notice and not to issue any further PCNs at such locations until they have replaced these advance notice signs with lawful ones. Meanwhile, anyone who gets a PCN in South Fulham Clean Air Neighbourhood should appeal on the grounds of inadequate signage: these purported traffic signs are not in accordance with TSRGD 2016 and have been placed on the highway unlawfully. For legal purposes they are to be regarded as void as the Council's power under s.65 Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 to place "traffic signs" on the highway only extends to "traffic signs" as defined in s.64 Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984; these are signs prescribed in TSRGD 2016 and those specially authorised by DfT.

@Hippocrates may wish to note that the same logic applies to other purported advance direction signs on blue backgrounds such as that outside Hammersmith Library on Shepherds Bush Road.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2025, 02:48:05 pm by Bustagate »

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AFAIK, there are no such things as prescribed warning signs. When determining compliance with LATOR, adjudicators look at signage in the round i.e. its totality. Regulatory signs must be substantially compliant with TSRGD or authorisation whereas IMO no such standard applies to 'advance warning' signs. IMO, 'traffic signs' must convey the restriction fairly and not mislead.
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On that basis, shouldn't the rectangular speed camera warning signs like the one below be unlawful when they are placed on roads with no speed cameras? If that's not misleading I don't know what is.
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On that basis, shouldn't the rectangular speed camera warning signs like the one below be unlawful when they are placed on roads with no speed cameras? If that's not misleading I don't know what is.
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Is that technically a "warning sign"?  Warning signs, in the Highway Code, are usually (not always) triangular with red borders. I think this is an informationsign.

https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/information-signs.html

Also, I don't think it actually means "there are definitely speed cameras here".  I think it means, as the site above says, that you're entering an area where speed cameras are used. Could that include temporary or mobile ones?

IMO, we're mixing doing something which, perhaps, shouldn't be done (and what sanctions would be applicable anyway by whom on application/complaint of who?) with not doing something which must be done, IMO a completely different issue.