Author Topic: Scotland CAZ PCNs must be served by registered post (for now)  (Read 1357 times)

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Scotland CAZ PCNs must be served by registered post (for now)
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This is subject to an appeal to the Upper Tribunal, but for now this is the position.

Allan Hamilton v Glasgow City Council (LZ00036-2308, 11 October 2023).
« Last Edit: February 20, 2025, 11:56:01 pm by cp8759 »
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

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Re: Scotland CAZ PCNs must be served by registered post (for now)
« Reply #2 on: »
@cp8759

@mrmustard

A point for brainstorming?
I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"

Re: Scotland CAZ PCNs must be served by registered post (for now)
« Reply #3 on: »
It only applies in Scots law, in England and Wales the binding authority in London Borough of Barnet Council, R (on the application of) v The Parking Adjudicator [2006] EWHC 2357 (Admin) takes precedence.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: Scotland CAZ PCNs must be served by registered post (for now)
« Reply #4 on: »
Sadly, not all Adjudicators apply/transpose the findings @para.41 to moving traffic and/or bus lane contraventions. I await a review decision shortly on this: 2240500622.

Two Adjudicators have said this week that they nevertheless regard the Scottish decision as persuasive.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2025, 10:13:05 am by Hippocrates »
I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"

Re: Scotland CAZ PCNs must be served by registered post (for now)
« Reply #5 on: »
I do not consider that Parliament had intended that the mis-statement of the grounds nullify the instant PCN.

2240500622
I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"

Re: Scotland CAZ PCNs must be served by registered post (for now)
« Reply #6 on: »
2240500622

Quote
The conduct of litigation in courts in England and Wales is guided by an overriding objective which underpins the entire Civil Procedure Rules framework and the Criminal Procedure Rules. The primary purpose of the overriding objective is to ensure that cases are dealt with justly and at proportionate cost.


While this Tribunal is not bound by either sets of the Rules, there is absolutely no justification as to why parties and the Tribunal should not conduct proceedings in line with the overriding objective.


When a Notice of Appeal is served by the Tribunal on the enforcing authority, the Authority must respond with the service of an evidence pack which will normally include its submissions against points raised in the representations and the Notice of Appeal. The Notice of Appeal in this case prevents the Authority from doing anything but to respond to the representations. When the Appellant serves a more substantive case, the Authority will have to re-visit its case in case a further response is required.


In this and some other cases, the situation is made worse by a party making a point which was never raised at the representations stage or in the Notgice of Appeal. The authority is obliged not just to re-visit its case, but to address the new (often lengthy) arguments, and often at short notice.


In some cases, one can understand readily an Appellant making further submissions after the Authority has served its evidence pack. This does not arise in this case. Apart from the copy of the PCN, the original of which was with the Appellant, the evidence pack had nothing to do with Mr Morgan’s argument. Nothing prevented him from setting out his case fairly and squarely when he prepared the Notice of Appeal.


This delay on the service of the Appellant’s case obliges the respondent authority to prepare their case twice. The informal approach in this Tribunal is not carte blanche for Appellants and their representatives to cause unnecessary work to the Authority in direct contradiction to the overriding objective. I dare say that if an authority having served its evidence pack, then chose to make further and lengthy submissions without any justification, there would be an uproar and a clamour for the appeal to be allowed for this reason alone. Appellant do not have a special privilege to behave differently. Adjudicators will bear in mind their power to award costs if a party ‘s conduct in making or resisting an appeal was wholly unreasonable, irrespective of the outcome of an appeal.
[/i]

Mr.Chan indulging in a severe knuckle-rapping?

What becomes of standard advice to those registering an appeal to put I rely on my earlier representations and full submission to follow
let alone the current even terser comment?

re: Glasgow City Council v Upper Tribunal for Scotland [2025] CSIH 2XA38/24

As I see it, the Court of Seesion was keen to stress the particularity of the case before it:
59] The court would emphasise that its decision is based on the particular facts of the
present case in which Mr Hamilton accepted that he received the PCN and where it is clear
that he challenged it timeously.


Much seems to have turned on the fact that although the notice was sent by ordinary post rather than the law's requirement of some traceable delivery, the original appellant was not disadvantaged by use of the ordinary post. One is left with impression that had he been disadvantaged the Court may have found differently.



Re: Scotland CAZ PCNs must be served by registered post (for now)
« Reply #7 on: »
I am taking this further.
I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"

Re: Scotland CAZ PCNs must be served by registered post (for now)
« Reply #8 on: »
I do not consider that Parliament had intended that the mis-statement of the grounds nullify the instant PCN.

2240500622

The original adjudicator:  It is possible that such errors could lead to prejudice in a particular case. The Enforcement Authority should correct them in future PCNs and on their website. Indeed it is in their own interests to do so if there are Adjudicators who regard the errors as establishing grounds of appeal. However, I am not satisfied that there is any prejudice established in the present case. Neither am I satisfied this is an appropriate appeal to allow by virtue of collateral challenge.

@John U.K. Mr.Chan indulging in a severe knuckle-rapping?


Certainly: against the other two Musketeers at least! BTW, my submissions are well known to the council as I have employed them at least four times. And, I have complained to their chief.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2025, 10:47:14 am by Hippocrates »
I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"

Re: Scotland CAZ PCNs must be served by registered post (for now)
« Reply #9 on: »
The full case decision here courtesy of cp8759:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LD63VXTSITbwBjkRvb30J9SMAx0agBjO/view

Cases used: 2240327073 (allowed); 2240403182 (refused); 2220894820 (allowed); 2220655455 (allowed).

All my efforts save for 2220894820.

***

Dear Sir or Madam

I ask for a review of Mr Burke's decision in the interests of justice.

 I fail to understand how an adjudicator can find a PCN to be substantially compliant when it contains false information.
Mr Burke usually dismisses Jackson J's finding that prejudice is irrelevant in parking law. Similarly, Ms Brennan adopts the same approach in that this finding does not apply to other legislation.
In Case reference 2220894820, Mr Greenslade takes a different approach which invites the question regarding the possibility of a panel hearing on this important matter. The Tribunal will be aware that I was the representative in the Bysshe Wallace case mentioned in the said case.
In this regard, I also ask for a panel hearing to reconsider Mr Vinod's case 2240403182.
Surely, common sense must be applied in terms of the Tribunal's approach to primary documents which clearly contain false information.  It is entirely irrelevant whether prejudice is caused or not.  In particular, an appellant without any knowledge whatsoever would be absolutely ignorant of the finer points of law, unlike a lay representative.  Should the latter receive such a PCN from Havering, would s/he be prejudiced or disadvantaged because they know the law? This situation is Wednesbury unreasonable.

Yours faithfully
« Last Edit: February 24, 2025, 12:30:33 pm by Hippocrates »
I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"

Re: Scotland CAZ PCNs must be served by registered post (for now)
« Reply #10 on: »
2240500622

Quote
The conduct of litigation in courts in England and Wales is guided by an overriding objective which underpins the entire Civil Procedure Rules framework and the Criminal Procedure Rules. The primary purpose of the overriding objective is to ensure that cases are dealt with justly and at proportionate cost.


While this Tribunal is not bound by either sets of the Rules, there is absolutely no justification as to why parties and the Tribunal should not conduct proceedings in line with the overriding objective.


When a Notice of Appeal is served by the Tribunal on the enforcing authority, the Authority must respond with the service of an evidence pack which will normally include its submissions against points raised in the representations and the Notice of Appeal. The Notice of Appeal in this case prevents the Authority from doing anything but to respond to the representations. When the Appellant serves a more substantive case, the Authority will have to re-visit its case in case a further response is required.


In this and some other cases, the situation is made worse by a party making a point which was never raised at the representations stage or in the Notgice of Appeal. The authority is obliged not just to re-visit its case, but to address the new (often lengthy) arguments, and often at short notice.


In some cases, one can understand readily an Appellant making further submissions after the Authority has served its evidence pack. This does not arise in this case. Apart from the copy of the PCN, the original of which was with the Appellant, the evidence pack had nothing to do with Mr Morgan’s argument. Nothing prevented him from setting out his case fairly and squarely when he prepared the Notice of Appeal.


This delay on the service of the Appellant’s case obliges the respondent authority to prepare their case twice. The informal approach in this Tribunal is not carte blanche for Appellants and their representatives to cause unnecessary work to the Authority in direct contradiction to the overriding objective. I dare say that if an authority having served its evidence pack, then chose to make further and lengthy submissions without any justification, there would be an uproar and a clamour for the appeal to be allowed for this reason alone. Appellant do not have a special privilege to behave differently. Adjudicators will bear in mind their power to award costs if a party ‘s conduct in making or resisting an appeal was wholly unreasonable, irrespective of the outcome of an appeal.

Mr.Chan indulging in a severe knuckle-rapping?

What becomes of standard advice to those registering an appeal to put I rely on my earlier representations and full submission to follow
let alone the current even terser comment?

re: Glasgow City Council v Upper Tribunal for Scotland [2025] CSIH 2XA38/24

As I see it, the Court of Seesion was keen to stress the particularity of the case before it:
59] The court would emphasise that its decision is based on the particular facts of the
present case in which Mr Hamilton accepted that he received the PCN and where it is clear
that he challenged it timeously.


Much seems to have turned on the fact that although the notice was sent by ordinary post rather than the law's requirement of some traceable delivery, the original appellant was not disadvantaged by use of the ordinary post. One is left with impression that had he been disadvantaged the Court may have found differently.

@John U.K.

More of the same: 2250057474

I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"

Re: Scotland CAZ PCNs must be served by registered post (for now)
« Reply #11 on: »
And another: 225012277A.  >:(  :(
I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"