Author Topic: RTA Section 88  (Read 494 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

NewJudge

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 201
  • Karma: +8/-0
    • View Profile
RTA Section 88
« on: June 06, 2024, 03:22:26 pm »
I’ve been having a debate “elsewhere” about RTA s88 (which allows a driver to continue to drive whilst his licence application is being processed).

In September ’23 a 79 year old driver made an application to renew his licence. He declared (simply) that he suffered from Sleep Apnoea (SA). This was the first time he had disclosed this condition. This resulted in a lot of follow up between the DVLA and his doctor, however his Doctor informed him he was not aware of any medical reason why he should not drive, so he continued to do so, relying on s88.

The DVLA wrote to him in December 2023 to advise that they have been informed of another potential medical condition and asked him to provide details within 14 days or his licence may be revoked. He replied with the information and within 6 weeks (Feb ’24) his new licence was issued (the second condition was not current, and is not affecting him now)

He was stopped for speeding during this time (in December). As well as he speeding, the police charged him under s87 and he now has a summons (may be a SJPN, but no matter) to answer those two charges. 

Section 88 says (among other things) that “…a qualifying application by the driver for the grant of a licence to drive vehicles of that class for a period which includes that time [must have] been received by the Secretary of State,”

It also says that “an application is a qualifying application if the declaration made in pursuance of section 92(1) of this Act indicates that he is not suffering from a relevant disability.

There is no doubt that SA is a relevant disability as far as this goes. Looking at the DVLA guidance, it seems there are varying degrees of the condition, some which would lead to the DVLA revoking or refusing a licence and others which wouldn’t. This driver’s contention is that because he had consulted his doctor (after he had submitted his application) who said there was no reason why he should not drive, he can take advantage of s88. My guess is that because he submitted an application declaring a “relevant condition” he is not entitled to take advantage of s88 and must wait for the DVLA to make their decision.

He received his licence about six weeks after he was stopped by the police.

Any thoughts?
 

Share on Facebook Share on Twitter


666

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 143
  • Karma: +0/-2
    • View Profile
Re: RTA Section 88
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2024, 03:56:55 pm »
I too suffer from SA.

I was diagnosed as "severe" and told I couldn't drive, then soon afterwards I was supplied with a CPAP machine and given the all-clear.

On my 3-year renewal last year I declared that I had the condition, and that it was under control and monitored regularly by the specialist. DVLA told me they wouldn't renew until they'd investigated (which took several months). However, they explicitly told me in writing that I could drive in the meantime under s88!

Make of that what you will.

NewJudge

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 201
  • Karma: +8/-0
    • View Profile
Re: RTA Section 88
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2024, 04:57:16 pm »
Quote
Make of that what you will.
It just adds o the confusion which seems to surround this.

The trouble for the driver in question is that he had no such verification from the DVLA. The first he heard from them (apart from the enquiry about the second condition) was when his licence was renewed in February.

What you have said is particularly confusing because in one of the DVLA pamphlets I have read it states categorically that the DVLA cannot give an opinion whether you would be permitted to rely on s88 whilst your application is being processed.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2024, 07:02:03 pm by NewJudge »

slapdash

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 326
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
Re: RTA Section 88
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2024, 06:50:55 pm »
I don't know if there is any impact as a result of the person's age and normal renewal requirements.

I rely on S88. My conditions seem to take the DVLA best part of a year from start to finish.

In the paperwork I received DVLA express no opinion that I can continue.

They tell me S88 allows me to continue provided a correctly completed application has been received (so I get confirmation) and I am satisfied I am medically fit.

The guidance mentioned ones medical practitioner giving the all clear was enough.

NewJudge

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 201
  • Karma: +8/-0
    • View Profile
Re: RTA Section 88
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2024, 07:06:58 pm »
Quote
They tell me S88 allows me to continue provided a correctly completed application has been received (so I get confirmation) and I am satisfied I am medically fit.

The more I read of this, the more disconnections I see between the legislation and the guidance (bit like Covid days!  :) )
Agree Agree x 1 View List

roythebus

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 124
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Restoring old buses since 1969.
  • Location: Somewhere in South East England
    • View Profile
Re: RTA Section 88
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2024, 08:10:01 pm »
The DVLA is a mess. My situation is similar. Being "of that age" and being a bus driver I have an annual medical. Since the covid farce I've had to rely on the s88 exemption for the last 3 or 4 years. This year my PSV entitlement was due for renewal in early April. I got my medical and posted it before the due date, got a proof of posting and tracked proof of receipt (the important bit) from DVLA. Within 2 weeks I got my paperwork back as I'd not sent the application form with it! I sent that almost by return and got the receipt of posting by the DVLA.

My employer pulled me up on the fact my psv licence had expired, but was satisfied that as the DVLA had received my application I could carry on driving on the s88 exemption until I got my licence back. I still haven't got my licence back from the DVLA, last time I tried to chase it up online the system told me they had a backlog and not to call them so I didn't. I may try again this week. My employer told me there's a number of drivers on s88 at the moment. They have over 200 drivers!

The advice from my employer, who probably knows more about the law than the DVLA is that providing the DVLA has received the application then carry on driving. If a doctor has deemed me unfit to drive then don't drive until the DVLA has reviewed the case. One of my colleagues has been diagnosed with diabetes and had to come off driving duties immediately.

The bonus for me is that with the annual delays my new licence has a year to run from the date of issue rather than the date of expiry o the previous one. so I've had the best part of a year with no licence and a saving of £70 by only having 3 medicals instead of 4.
Bus driving since 1973. My advice, if you have a PSV licence, destroy it when you get to 65 or you'll be forever in demand.

roythebus

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 124
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Restoring old buses since 1969.
  • Location: Somewhere in South East England
    • View Profile
Re: RTA Section 88
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2024, 08:15:42 pm »
But going back to your original question, I could ask my employer for their view on it. My view is that your man has declared a disability, the doctor has said he is fit enough to drive, until the DVLA advise otherwise and they can only do that once they've got their doctor's advice.
Bus driving since 1973. My advice, if you have a PSV licence, destroy it when you get to 65 or you'll be forever in demand.
Agree Agree x 1 View List

slapdash

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 326
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
Re: RTA Section 88
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2024, 09:26:02 pm »
The more I read of this, the more disconnections I see between the legislation and the guidance (bit like Covid days!  :) )

I came to the conclusion that what the legislation said was irrelevant until such point as I had a decision from the DVLA I wanted to challenge and the route for that was a hearing in magistrates court.

Some practical issues that may be faced:-

- Renting a car becomes difficult. DVLA show an expired licence and won't produce a check code.
- Don't input a driver number when obtaining insurance quotes. Insurers will not auto quote. Some insurers you would expect to quote then won't quote afterwards if no licence is used.
- Get an IDP (if possible) if driving abroad. Whether S88 is accepted is down to wherever one is (even pre Brexit)

roythebus

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 124
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Restoring old buses since 1969.
  • Location: Somewhere in South East England
    • View Profile
Re: RTA Section 88
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2024, 09:26:49 am »
Luckily for me the s88 bit only applies to my bus driving section!

DVLA is guidance only, much like the highway code.
Bus driving since 1973. My advice, if you have a PSV licence, destroy it when you get to 65 or you'll be forever in demand.

roythebus

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 124
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Restoring old buses since 1969.
  • Location: Somewhere in South East England
    • View Profile
Re: RTA Section 88
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2024, 10:25:22 pm »
An update on my licence renewal, I managed to speak to, wait for it, a PERSON at the DVSA today! My medical records are being looked at currently and a letter has gone to my GP for clarification. I will need to make an appointment to see my GP. As it's deemed not urgent, there's an appointment booked in 4 weeks! Meanwhile I can continue to drive under the s88 exemption. the lady at the DVLA offered to send me a copy of s88 but I politely declined as I already have a copy.
Bus driving since 1973. My advice, if you have a PSV licence, destroy it when you get to 65 or you'll be forever in demand.

cp8759

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 4876
  • Karma: +113/-4
    • View Profile
Re: RTA Section 88
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2024, 07:27:03 pm »
An update on my licence renewal, I managed to speak to, wait for it, a PERSON at the DVSA today!
Wouldn't that be DVLA?
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

slapdash

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 326
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
Re: RTA Section 88
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2024, 10:52:43 am »
so I've had the best part of a year with no licence

The legislation only appears to grant a period of a year, if it's getting close that may be worth keeping an eye on.

roythebus

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 124
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Restoring old buses since 1969.
  • Location: Somewhere in South East England
    • View Profile
Re: RTA Section 88
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2024, 06:17:53 pm »
The latest update on mine is that the DVLA medics decided they want some information from my GP. they sent the papers last week. They arrived this morning, signed and sent back. My GP wonders what they are on about! so far over 3 months on s88 exemption.
Bus driving since 1973. My advice, if you have a PSV licence, destroy it when you get to 65 or you'll be forever in demand.