Author Topic: *Split from hijacked thread* - Re: Harrow Camrose Avenue Bus Gate 33E  (Read 5872 times)

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I'm a newbie and my attempt to include an image in the post didn't work. I'm reposting what I wrote with the image as an attachment. It won't be where I wanted it in the post, so you may do better to click on the hyperlink to "original plan" and get it in another window.

The TMO

I have taken a look at The Harrow (Bus Priority) Traffic Order 2011, which is the TMO which Harrow use as the basis of their 33E PCNs for the Camrose Avenue "bus gates". Schedule 1 lists Bus Lanes while Schedule 2 lists Bus-only routes, including

1(a) Camrose Avenue westbound: the carriageway to the south of the southern traffic island immediately to the west of its junction with Dale Avenue.

1(b) Camrose Avenue eastbound:  the carriageway to the north of the northern traffic island immediately to the west of its junction with Dale Avenue.

So far, so good. But what are the areas of carriageway referred to? What do "southern traffic island" and "northern traffic island" mean?


Original Plan

Let's look at the original plan [Click and get it in another window before you continue; I've also uploaded it as an attachment]

Westbound as one turns left from Dale Avenue there is first the section of red-surfaced road with the words "BUS & <cycle> ONLY" and a solid heavy white line (black on the plan, but the convention is that white lines are drawn as black) curving from Dale Avenue to the inside of a traffic island. As it's unambiguous, I'm going to call this the "westbound traffic island".  In front of it is an area of hatching on the road which extends half way across the exit of Dale Avenue.

Above the westbound traffic island on the plan is another section of westbound road with arrows pointing the way through. Above that is what I shall refer to as a "traffic separation barrier" which takes a snake-like form. Its rightmost end could be regarded as the pair to the westbound traffic island: it bears a pole with a traffic sign (the 6'6" width restriction). But this part of the traffic separation barrier is not itself a traffic island: either the entire snake-like form is a single traffic island or it isn't. It certainly isn't more than a single object.

Now let's move to the western end of the traffic separation barrier. Above it is a section of eastbound road with arrows pointing the way through. Above that is a traffic island, which I shall call the "eastbound traffic island". In front of this is a section of hatching on the road. Above both the hatching and the eastbound traffic island is a section of red-surfaced road with the words "BUS & <cycle> ONLY" and a taper of the red-surface dressing to the exit from the service road.


Changes in 2018

These plans show us what the intentions were of the designers of the road scheme for their implementation. They have been changed since then, because of the 2018 amendment to the TMO which permitted taxis as well as buses and cycles to use the otherwise-prohibited areas of the carriageway. It was this (along with deterioration of the road surface) which led to the resurfacing with the loss of the red surface dressing and to the replacement of the explicit words  "BUS & <cycle> ONLY" with the enigmatic "BUS GATE" (of which more in another post). Note also that when the new markings were painted, the words "BUS GATE" were not placed at the start of the restricted sections of carriageway but further along. Also, the diversionary arrow (to diagram 1014 of Chapter 3 of the Traffic Signs Manual) immediately in front of the red-surfaced area was shortened and repositioned close to the kerb. Formerly, its tip had lain to the right of the start of the traffic island, directing motorists to the section of road where they should be. Now it lay within the taper (formerly surface-dressed red), pointing to the left of the eastbound traffic island. It therefore directs motorists into the restricted zone. The restriction is not marked until one is within it.


Double-take

At least this is what I thought. Then I did a double-take. Go back to the words of the TMO. The restricted areas are

  • the carriageway to the south of the southern traffic island immediately to the west of its junction with Dale Avenue
  • the carriageway to the north of the northern traffic island immediately to the west of its junction with Dale Avenue

I have labeled the structures on the carriageway as

  • the westbound traffic island
  • the eastbound traffic island
  • the traffic separation barrier

I did so as I consider these terms to be accurate and unambiguous. I don't consider that the traffic separation barrier could be described as a traffic island but will consider later what happens if someone wishes to describe it as such.

If Camrose Avenue ran east-west, we could also describe the westbound traffic island as the southern traffic island and the eastbound traffic island as the northern traffic island. In that case, the TMO would mean that the red-surfaced areas were indeed the ones which were restricted to buses and cycles (and, since the 2018 amendment) taxis.

But Camrose Avenue runs NE - SW at the restrictions. If you draw a line of latitude 51.607123 N through the area, you will see that the westbound traffic island is actually the northern one, being entirely to the north of this (its centre is at 51.601775 N) while the eastbound traffic island is actually the southern one (its centre is at 51.601658 N).


Implications for the TMO

This completely upends the TMO. The area of carriageway described in 1(a) is that to the south of the eastbound traffic island while that for 1(b) is the area to the north of the westbound carriageway. So the restricted areas of carriageway through which only buses and cycles (and now taxis) can pass are those bits which lie within the 6'6" width restrictions. As buses are more than 6'6" wide, this is a bit of a problem! (Never mind also, that the direction of travel specified in the TMO is the opposite to that on the road.)

The corollary is that the areas of road shown on the plan with red surface dressing are actually permitted to all traffic. All the PCNs ever issued for Camrose Avenue are invalid.

I don't see how this "gotcha" can be resolved. Claiming that the traffic separation barrier is a traffic island doesn't really help. It's got to be somewhere; the natural choice would be to take its position as that of its centre, which, surprise, surprise, lies in the middle, so the westbound traffic island remains the northern one and the eastbound traffic island remains the southern one.


Implications for Recipients of PCNs

I'm not a lawyer so don't know how a court would view this. As I understand it, the words of the TMO are what count. The diagrams produced for the scheme are considered by the Council in preparing and approving the scheme. They could be considered by the courts to resolve a detail which had not been specified in the words of the TMO. But in this case the words of the TMO are unambiguous. By no stretch of the imagination can "northern traffic island" be construed as meaning "southern traffic island". Yet the order as made is a nonsense! I suspect that the courts would throw up their hands and declare that that part of the TMO relating to Camrose Avenue was either ambiguous or meaningless and therefore void. In which case what happens to all the penalties which motorists have paid over the years? It is truly fitting that Harrow's biggest PCN-revenue-raiser should be built on such shaky foundations.

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« Last Edit: December 06, 2024, 01:12:41 am by cp8759 »

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Re: Re: Harrow Camrose Avenue Bus Gate 33E
« Reply #1 on: »
BUS GATES

Early Bus Gates

The words "BUS GATE" are appearing more frequently on roads and motorists are penalised for going through them. But what are they and why are they so called? I believe that the answer lies in something which existed about 20 years ago but which was fairly rare.

The centre of Cambridge has had traffic problems for many years. Its road layout is mediaeval and roads can't be widened because the buildings are Grade I. In order to restrict traffic entering the centre but allow buses to do so, rising bollards were installed on Bridge Street south of Thompsons Lane. These were normally raised and physically blocked ordinary motor vehicles (but not motorbikes). Buses were fitted with transponders which, when the bus approached, caused the bollards to be lowered into the road so that the bus could pass over them. Once it had done so, the bollards rose again to obstruct other vehicles.

Such a system of rising bollards which opens for buses performed the same function as a gate with a gate-keeper. It was natural to call such an arrangement a "bus gate". But they were expensive to install and run and the drivers of other vehicles (taxis, medics, etc) wanted to be given transponders. They could also be dangerous as drivers tailgated buses to get through.

The consequence has been that local authorities have simplified the original concept, removing the expensive equipment and installing a video camera instead. But they have retained the name "bus gate". This creates problems for motorists as the term "BUS GATE" written on the road surface is intrinsically meaningless. It appears nowhere in legislation nor does it appear in the Highway Code (even the 2024 edition).


Traffic Signs Manual

The first official document to use the term "bus gate" was Chapter 3 of the Traffic Signs Manual. Section 9.7.3 of this states:

Quote
9.7.3. A bus gate is a short length of bus‑only street. On a two‑way road, access may be restricted to buses in one direction only, with all traffic permitted in the opposite direction, i.e. similar to a contraflow lane, but too short to be signed as such. In this case, that part of the carriageway reserved for buses should be separated from the opposing flow of traffic by a traffic island and not by a continuous line marking to diagram 1049A (see Figure 9‑25). Bus gates are often used to remove through traffic from a road but allow full access. They effectively create a “no through road” for all traffic other than buses. The bus gate may be located either at a junction or part way along a road, and may be used by other vehicles where permitted by the order. If a bus gate is placed on a road that was previously a signed route or was used by significant through traffic, consideration should be given to providing or changing directional signing to guide prohibited traffic to use the preferred alternative route, as described in 5.1.2. An example is shown in Figure 9‑26

Bus-only streets are defined in section 9.7.1 and 9.7.2:

Quote
9.7.1. Where a one‑way or two‑way road is reserved for buses and any other permitted vehicles, the entry points may be indicated by upright signs in following ways:

    • The “bus only” sign to diagram 953, 953A or 953B ...
    • The “no entry” sign to diagram 616 with an appropriate exception plate (S3‑2‑10)...
    • The “no motor vehicles” sign to diagram 619 with an appropriate supplementary plate (S3‑2‑12)...
    • Diagram 617 with an appropriate exception plate (S3‑2‑11)...
The other end of a one‑way road must have “no entry” signs to diagram 616 in accordance with 4.9.5 to 4.9.7...

9.7.2. The upright signs need to be placed as near as practicable to the point where the restriction commences, but there is no specific requirement to provide a sign on each side of the carriageway... Drivers should not be placed in the situation where they might not see the sign before starting to turn at a road junction. Also, at a junction where the side road is at an acute angle with the major road, two signs might be required so that it is clear as to which road the prohibition applies

Bus gates are also defined in Bus and cycle signs and road markings (updated 5 December 2023):

Quote
A bus gate is a short length of bus-only street.


Bus Gates in Bus-only Streets

The rising bollards in Cambridge were in a section of Bridge Street on which the only permitted motor vehicles were buses and vehicles serving premises on that section of Bridge Street. That approach has been retained in the official documents listed above. The only exception is that a two-way road can be bus-only in one direction but not the other. Camrose Avenue does not fall into this category because other traffic can bypass the restrictions in both directions.

Bus-only streets are typically regarded as pedestrianised in that section and have the appropriate signage at each end. Usually the section of road which is bus-only runs between junctions at each end with advance signage for motorists approaching the junction indicating that the particular direction is bus-only. There is always an exit from the junction where the driver can go to avoid entering the bus-only street.

Provided the advance signage is adequate, this form of bus gate seems to me unexceptionable. It is what Bridge Street in Cambridge has become. Motorists are directed away from the bus-only street and so never reach that short section of it which has the cameras. In Bridge Street the section with the words "BUS GATE" and the cameras has red-dressed tarmac, which tells vehicles serving the shops where they need to turn back.


Bus Lanes

Bus lanes are defined in legislation and the signage for them is set out in the Traffic Signs Manual. These ensure that motorists can see where they're not meant to be. Motorists using the road which has a bus lane get mandatory advanced warning:

  • a sign to diagram 958 (the rectangular blue sign showing a white bus and other types of permitted vehicle with a solid white line to the right and a dashed slanting white line below) sited 30 m in advance of the lead‑in taper
  • a lead-in taper with a broken broad white line at its front, with a minimum clear visibility distance of 45 m; or, where there is an adjacent junction with a side road, a broken broad white line curving from the junction to the start of the bus lane
  • a solid broad white line marking the outside of the bus lane
  • the words "BUS LANE" on the road at the start of the bus lane

Local authorities create bus lanes using TROs (TMOs in London). The legislation about signage ensure that motorists are adequately warned.


Roll-your-own Bus Gates

We now come to the area where problems arise. Local authorities have started using TROs and TMOs to designate sections of road as "bus-only" (which often includes cycles and taxis).

Camrose Avenue can be regarded as an early form of this. The original scheme from 2008 used red surface-dressing to distinguish the bus-only sections of road from the others and had the words "BUS & <cycle> ONLY across their start. Eastbound there was a lead-in taper (as for a bus lane) while westbound (where Dale Avenue makes this impracticable) there was a solid white line curving from Dale Avenue to the traffic island. There were also diversionary arrows which, if followed, took motorists to the centre of the road. What there was not was advance signage on posts, such as is mandated for bus lanes.

In 2018 the TMO for Camrose Avenue was amended to permit taxis. The road was resurfaced without the red dressing and the words which meaningfully indicated to motorists who was permitted were replaced by the cryptic "BUS GATE". These were placed further into the restricted area than the meaningful words had been. Worse, the solid white line was removed westbound and the second arrow eastbound was shortened and moved towards the kerb so that it pointed into the restricted area rather than away from it.

Harrow Council were able to do this because they are the authors of these restrictions and they are not following any guidance from the Department for Transport as the latter does not recognise that they exist. They are "roll-your-own".

It would be interesting to know whether the number of PCNs issued on Camrose
Avenue jumped after the 2018 resurfacing and how those numbers compare between eastbound (where the arrows direct motorists into the "bus gate") and westbound (where they don't).


Legislative Framework for Bus-only Routes

In 2010 a working group appointed by the PATROL Adjudication Joint Committee and the Bus Lane Adjudication Service Joint Committee met to review the drafting of Bus Lane Traffic Regulation Orders (TROs). Page 5 of its report states:

Quote
Some existing TROs refer to “bus only streets” and “bus gates” which don’t appear to be defined by legislation but are terms used in the Traffic Signs Manual issued by the DfT. In the Traffic Signs Manual, a “bus only street” is a one way or two way road which is for use by buses (cycles and/or taxis) and a “bus gate” is a short length of bus only street. The DfT’s approach to signage appears to differ depending on whether there is a bus lane, as defined in the TSRGD 2002, a “bus only street” or a “bus gate”.

If the terms “bus only streets” and “bus gates” are to be used in a TRO, in order to ensure that they are enforceable, they would need to be defined as bus lanes in accordance with the Transport Act 2000.

It's worth noting that The Harrow (Bus Priority) Traffic Order 2011, which superseded the original TMO for Camrose Avenue, had two schedules. Schedule 1 was concerned with bus lanes while Schedule 2 (which included Camrose Avenue) was concerned with "bus-only routes". That appears to be Harrow's own variant of the "bus only streets" which the PATROL/BLAS working group advised needed to be defined as bus lanes to be enforceable.

Some adjudications of appeals from PCNs have asserted that "bus gates" are short sections of bus lane. Would that they were, as bus lanes have well-defined signage which provides vastly better warning than the roll-your-own efforts of local authorities.


Conclusion

The roll-your-own nature of bus-only routes defined by TROs and TMOs outside the legislative framework of bus lanes has allowed local authorities to create sections of road with wholly inadequate signage which locals know to avoid but which entrap those from outside the local area. Many "bus gate" schemes serve as a source of income for a council which bears on those who cannot vote it out.

Local authorities should beware of the conclusions of the working group of the PATROL/Bus Lane Adjudication Service:

Quote
if “bus only streets” and “bus gates” are to be used in a TRO, in order to ensure that they are enforceable, they would need to be defined as bus lanes in accordance with the Transport Act 2000.
PCNs in respect of "bus gates" should be appealed with reference to the PATROL /BLAS report and the signage requirements of bus lanes. The words "BUS GATE" are intrinsically meaningless and not in the Highway Code. Motorists are expected to be alert to road signs and to respond to them. They are not expected to be mind-readers or capable of parsing words strung together in apparently meaningless ways. Adjudicators need to be reminded that, although they now know what "BUS GATE" means, to the appellant the words might as well be "BUS FARM".
« Last Edit: December 05, 2024, 06:56:45 pm by Bustagate »

Re: Re: Harrow Camrose Avenue Bus Gate 33E
« Reply #2 on: »
9.7.6.  The “BUS GATE” road marking to diagram 1048.5 (S9‑6‑15, see Figure 9-27) may
be used in conjunction with 953 series upright signs, and with diagram 616 (no entry) when
accompanied by a plate that exempts buses, as shown in Figure 9-25 and Figure 9-26. The
regulations do not permit it to be used with diagram 617 or 619, even if these signs have a bus
exemption.
9.7.7.  This replaces the previously prescribed diagrams 1048.3 “BUS ONLY” and 1048.4 “BUS
AND (cycle symbol) ONLY”. Unlike the “BUS ONLY” marking, the “BUS GATE” marking can be
used where the restricted access applies for only part of the day or where the road may be used
by vehicles other than buses, cycles and taxis (e.g. solo motor cycles or “except for access”).
It also takes up less space than the previous “BUS AND (cycle symbol) ONLY” marking,
which might have been difficult to place in a very short bus gate. The legend may be laid in a
single line or in two lines depending on the carriageway or lane width available. Two sizes are
prescribed; the smaller size will be appropriate for most situations. The larger size might be
used where greater emphasis is required
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: Re: Harrow Camrose Avenue Bus Gate 33E
« Reply #3 on: »
Thank you. I see that Harrow Council may have been forced into using the words "BUS GATE" even if they hadn't added taxis. But that doesn't explain their placing the words further into the restricted area than "BUS & (cycle symbol) ONLY" had been. Nor does it explain the presence of the 953 sign so far into the restricted zone. Or the second 1014 arrow eastbound pointing into the restricted zone.

If the restricted zone is technically part of a bus lane, there should also be a sign to diagram 959B placed as near as practicable to the start of the lane, i.e. where the continuous line to diagram 1049A begins (except it's absent in both directions but had been present westbound until the resurfacing).

I remain of the view that "BUS GATE" is no more meaningful than "BUS FARM". If "BUS GATE" is mandated, it should be in the Highway Code.

Re: Re: Harrow Camrose Avenue Bus Gate 33E
« Reply #4 on: »
Thank you. I see that Harrow Council may have been forced into using the words "BUS GATE" even if they hadn't added taxis. But that doesn't explain their placing the words further into the restricted area than "BUS & (cycle symbol) ONLY" had been. Nor does it explain the presence of the 953 sign so far into the restricted zone. Or the second 1014 arrow eastbound pointing into the restricted zone.

If the restricted zone is technically part of a bus lane, there should also be a sign to diagram 959B placed as near as practicable to the start of the lane, i.e. where the continuous line to diagram 1049A begins (except it's absent in both directions but had been present westbound until the resurfacing).

I remain of the view that "BUS GATE" is no more meaningful than "BUS FARM". If "BUS GATE" is mandated, it should be in the Highway Code.

Sorry as you are going off on a tangent. Please do not confuse Bus Lane signs with Bus Gate signs. This is not a bus lane so 959B is irrelevant. Also, can we please have this discussion on your thread as the OP's case will be heard shortly?
« Last Edit: December 05, 2024, 08:16:22 pm by Hippocrates »
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: Re: Harrow Camrose Avenue Bus Gate 33E
« Reply #5 on: »
The issue is that "bus gates" are not defined in legislation. It is legislation which makes TROs and TMOs enforceable. That is why Adjudicators have tended to construe "bus gates" as some minimal form of bus lane and why the PATROL/BLAS report advised local authorities to use bus lane legislation to ensure enforceability.

Traffic authorities are trying to have their cake and eat it by using the legislation relating to bus lanes to enforce TROs and TMOs which purport to create "bus-only streets" and "bus-only routes" without adhering to the signage rules for bus lanes.

Those signage rules are there for a purpose: they set the standards which ensure that motorists are warned appropriately of the restrictions ahead. Reducing the signage makes it more likely that motorists, especially those from outside the area, will unintentionally become subject to a PCN. It's a hassle to challenge a PCN, so many pay up while they can claim the 50% discount. And the local authority pockets the money.

Re: *Split from hijacked thread* - Re: Harrow Camrose Avenue Bus Gate 33E
« Reply #6 on: »
@Bustagate as you say you are a newbie, and you should not be posting advice if you are not qualified to assist (which, with the best will in the world, you are not (or at least not yet)).

From a quick skim of what you've written, a comprehensive answer to everything you say is found in Oxfordshire County Council, R (on the application of) v The Bus Lane Adjudicator [2010] EWHC 894 (Admin) which you should read and take in.

Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm all for new people coming along with arguments and ideas, but we all started with no knowledge of the subject and getting to the position to positively give advice to posters takes a few months at least, and can take years.

As a general rule if an experienced representative has taken over conduct of the case, you should leave it to them or at most make a suggestion about something they might want to look into, it is not a newbie's place to start questioning the approach taken by people who have been in this line of business for many years.

If you do want to enter into any sort of debate, that should be done in the flame pit rather than on a live thread, hence why your posts have ended up here.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: *Split from hijacked thread* - Re: Harrow Camrose Avenue Bus Gate 33E
« Reply #7 on: »
I apologise if my desire to post material which related to Camrose Avenue on a current Camrose Avenue thread  did not conform to the "house rules" of this site. Perhaps it's not a site I should be posting to.

I thought that my discovery that The Harrow (Bus Priority) Traffic Order 2011 had used "northern traffic island" where "southern traffic island" was presumably intended (and vice versa) might provide assistance to the OP.

I am aware of the the 2010 Oxford judgment and had considered including a reference to it in a previous post (to make the point that the entire width of a road can be a bus lane).

I know it doesn't relate to London, but the TMA 2004 statutory guidance says (my italics)


Quote
Local authorities should aim to increase compliance with bus lane and moving traffic regulations through clear, well designed, legal, and enforced controls including clear traffic signing which can readily be understood from a moving vehicle.

I consider that the rules for the signage of bus lanes provide a benchmark against which to assess whether "clear traffic signing which can readily be understood from a moving vehicle" exists.

Re: *Split from hijacked thread* - Re: Harrow Camrose Avenue Bus Gate 33E
« Reply #8 on: »
Your OP might also wish to consider whether the absence of warning signs of the use of cameras to enforce the "bus gate" invalidates the PCN. See the contemporary image below of Bridge Street, Cambridge.

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Re: *Split from hijacked thread* - Re: Harrow Camrose Avenue Bus Gate 33E
« Reply #9 on: »
@Bustagate Do you have a Harrow case at present? BTW, luv the name!
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: *Split from hijacked thread* - Re: Harrow Camrose Avenue Bus Gate 33E
« Reply #10 on: »
I don't, but I have prepared an appeal for a relative against a PCN issued in respect of Camrose Avenue eastbound. My first post and some of the second post derived from the material in that appeal. In the second post I added the bit about the history of bus gates as it explains how they arose (literally, out of the road!). See the photo below of the Cambridge bus gate in 2008.

I'm not in the business of providing advice; I just wished to make available to others material which they may find helpful.

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Re: *Split from hijacked thread* - Re: Harrow Camrose Avenue Bus Gate 33E
« Reply #11 on: »
May I suggest you contact me please to assist? In know the pitfalls - for both parties.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: *Split from hijacked thread* - Re: Harrow Camrose Avenue Bus Gate 33E
« Reply #12 on: »
Those receiving PCNs in respect of Camrose Avenue may wish to point out the absence of a sign such as that shown below, which is on Emmanuel Road, Cambridge.

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Re: *Split from hijacked thread* - Re: Harrow Camrose Avenue Bus Gate 33E
« Reply #13 on: »
Those receiving PCNs in respect of Camrose Avenue may wish to point out the absence of a sign such as that shown below, which is on Emmanuel Road, Cambridge.

What exactly is your point? Meanwhile, the result of one of my efforts and I would not mention it before any hearing.:

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/harrow-camrose-ave-bus-gate-33e-pcn-33e-using-restricted-to-certain-vehicles-bus/msg38148/#msg38148

My offer still stands. Winning cases is based on knowledge (hard-earned) and strategy.

My colleague and friend was also successful in this case:

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/camrose-avenue-harrow-bus-gate/msg3595/#msg3595

I really do advise you do not reveal your hand whatever stage you are at with your relative's PCN.

It sounds as if you want to Do It My Way. Good luck.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2024, 06:49:06 pm by Hippocrates »
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: *Split from hijacked thread* - Re: Harrow Camrose Avenue Bus Gate 33E
« Reply #14 on: »
I wish to assist those who are caught on Camrose Avenue by showing how other local authorities (in this case Cambridge) provide appropriate signage which advises motorists where to go to avoid being caught. Cambridge follows Government advice

Quote
Local authorities should aim to increase compliance with bus lane and moving traffic regulations through clear, well designed, legal, and enforced controls including clear traffic signing which can readily be understood from a moving vehicle.

The sign which Cambridge uses to tell motorists where to go on Emmanuel Road is the fifth in a crescendo of warnings, all of which are subject to a 20 mph speed limit. They ensure that motorists are on guard and ready to react. Cambridge truly enters into the spirit of the Government advice to provide "clear traffic signing which can readily be understood from a moving vehicle". I consider that Cambridge's signage provides a benchmark against which adjudicators can assess the adequacy of Harrow's on Camrose Avenue.

It is a principle of English law that penalties for infractions of regulations have to be proportionate to the harm which the infraction causes. In the context of licensing transport operators, The Traffic Commissioners' Statutory document 10: principles of decision making & the concept of proportionality sets it out thus:


Quote
In essence, the legal principle of proportionality requires a traffic commissioner when exercising a statutory function, to make decisions which are commensurate with the circumstances of each individual case and the purposes of the legislation...

Adjudicators have to consider the purpose of The Harrow (Bus Priority) Traffic Order 2011. Despite its title, the history of Camrose Avenue shows that the scheme is in fact concerned with stopping HGVs from using Camrose Avenue as a through route.

When the scheme was created in the 1980s, physical restriction by width was the only practicable means of keeping out HGVs. But it also kept out buses. The bus-only routes were created so that buses could bypass the width restrictions. That they do not serve as a bus-priority scheme is readily apparent: buses sit behind the cars and vans queueing for the width restriction. When they get close to the widening before the width restriction, they can go straight to the bus stop. But then they have to give way to vehicles emerging from the chicane after the width restriction.

Today, councils look up the type of vehicle from its number plate. Harrow uses this (at least I assume that it does) to enforce emissions restrictions and TfL's Safer HGV zone. So why not sweep away the physical width restriction and the chicane and just look up the vehicle type from the CCTV camera? Such an approach would lead to PCNs only being issued to HGVs, which achieves the purpose of the scheme. It would also help improve the reliability of bus journeys, as buses would no longer have to sit in the queue of vehicles for the width restriction.  So it would be a WIN, WIN.

It would also avoid the embarrassment (if Harrow is capable of being embarrassed) that Harrow will face when they have to explain why half of the PCNs issued on Camrose Avenue relate to journeys between 6 p.m. and 6 a.m  with one eighth of all PCNs being issued during the early hours of the morning when no buses are running.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2024, 08:52:29 pm by Bustagate »