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https://ibb.co/Z64WxvzB
The above - I hope my image makes it - can be seen in Arundel (///nosedive.ears.digress) although I have a feeling this question applies to many other locations in the UK.
It's in a spot which has been used for some time by campervans. The council decided to put a stop to it (probably because not everyone who spent the night there felt inclined to remove their rubbish when they left in the morning)
Looking on
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/know-your-traffic-signs/on-street-parking-control-signs-and-road-markings
Am I deluding myself: to be enforceable there must be yellow lines on the road and possibly even signage at either the entry and exit point the street or maybe the town or area itself? -
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Interesting sign. I can't find it in TSRGD 2016. That doesn't mean that the sign isn't lawful. The council could have obtained special permission for it from DfT. I searched https://dft.gov.uk/traffic-auths/?search=West+Sussex and looked through the 18 hits: nothing about signs for motor caravans. It's still possible that DfT have authorised it but it hasn't got onto their database yet. My suspicion, however, would be that they haven't and the council are pulling a fast one.
The general policy adopted with traffic signs is that "motorised caravans" are a subspecies of caravan and that signs show a towed caravan. That makes sense to me: otherwise I look forward to caravan owners parking their cars with attached caravan beneath the "Motor caravans" sign.
Councils' usual practice is to ban parking overnight. The problem is enforcement. The council has to prove that the vehicle was parked during the prohibited hours. If it's a car park with well-defined entrances and exits, they can use cameras and ANPR; on an ordinary road they've got to have someone going along during the prohibited hours. I expect they're scheduling someone to go along between 8 a.m. and 9 a.m. That's a time when they probably don't want to be banning parking.
I found this article about a TRO which the council made to ban motor caravans. It reported that 14 signs had been removed "unlawfully". It looks to me as though the signs had been placed unlawfully and that whoever removed them was taking the law into his own hands.
To sum up, the council are in a bind. They can pass a TRO to ban motor caravans overnight, but there are no official signs for this. The only way to implement the TRO lawfully is to obtain permission from DfT for special signs and then place them. They may find that DfT won't agree to the signs or suggest that the council should ban overnight parking instead. Either way, it's not as easy as the council thinks. -
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The article in your link is referring to the location I am talking about.
We visited last weekend thinking that we might stay overnight. Whilst I had my doubts about the enforceability I decided I'd rather do without the time consuming hassle of getting a ticket cancelled, should we get one. Perhaps a mini success for the councils involved.
The article staes it was residents' complaints that brought about the restriction however looking on the satellite image on Googlemaps, there are no residences in the vicinity. -
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There’s often an excessive amount of vans parked along Mill Road, sadly the occasional stench and more obvious, trails from grey and black waste often being dumped from open drain taps as they drive away can make a road pretty vile to walk alongside especially in the summer
When we last visited we preferred to pay the modest cost to stay in the Mill Road Car Park, far nicer and safer than sleeping with cars passing inches from our heads.
In certain locations around the country it has got so out of hand it’s not surprising councils are trying to stem it.
Long rows of often tatty vans aren’t a pretty sight and for some, simple common sense of driving elsewhere when a location is obviously rammed clearly does not compute! -
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In certain locations around the country it has got so out of hand it’s not surprising councils are trying to stem it.
It seems to be the latest fad; only yesterday yet another friend Whatsapped me a photo of their latest acquisition, a classic VW campervan, which makes it the fourth or fifth friend to have got one in the last 12 months. -
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@Bustagate
Thanks for the link above, quite interesting do you know if there is a similar one where TROs can be looked up?
IIRC a few years ago in Scotland hundreds of “no overnight parking” signs were put up and many were challenged and later removed or were unenforceable because of the wording
Many in the motor caravan community seem to think if a sign doesn’t have a related bylaw or TRO on it that it isn’t official and it’s very common practice amongst certain elements of that community to decide they have the right to remove and disobey them. This practice is regularly encouraged on anti social media platforms such as Facebook
Maybe the catalyst for this behaviour stemmed from what had happened in Scotland. -
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@Ducato It's up to local authorities as to whether they make their TROs available on their website. Some do. Most don't. If you get a ticket, they don't tell you at that stage what the TRO is, but they do put it in their evidence if it goes to appeal before an adjudicator. If you get a ticket, try phoning or emailing the council to ask for the TRO. You can also put in a Freedom of Information request for it, which they are obliged to answer (but not before you have to make representations against a PCN).
Legally-enforceable parking restrictions always specify the hours when the restrictions apply. "Overnight" isn't a recognised term. That creates problems for the council which wants to apply restrictions without the cost of sending someone out in the small hours to photograph and ticket the vehicles.
West Sussex have at least specified the hours, so the restriction is potentially enforceable. Their problem is that when local authorities make TROs, regulation 18 of The Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996 requires them to place traffic signs to show the effects of the order. These must be "proper" traffic signs as specified in The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 (as amended) or as specially authorised by DfT. If the Council doesn't do this,- its actions aren't lawful and can be challenged;
- there is well-defined case law that, if there isn't adequate signage (meaning "proper" traffic signs) for a restriction, no contravention occurs and there is no civil liability.
Having said that, it's a load of hassle to challenge a PCN, so many people pay up within two weeks of receiving a PCN so as to qualify for the "discount".
If you do get a PCN at a site where there's a sign which doesn't specify times or which applies only to motor caravans, when you ask the council for the TRO, also say that you don't think the sign is in accordance with TSRGD 2016 and that you'd like to see their special authorisation from DfT to place that sign on the public highway. Tell them that, as Mr (later Lord Justice) Beatson said at paragraph 65 of this judgment in R (Oxfordshire CC) v The Bus Lane Adjudicator [2010] EWHC 894 (Admin)QuoteThe Defendant's submission that the fact that signs are prescribed or authorised does not mean they are sufficient for securing adequate information as to the effect of an order is made available to road users is clearly correct. If the signs do not in fact provide adequate information no offence is committed; see James v Cavey [1967] 2 QB 676. Such information is a requirement and, as Jackson J stated in R (Barnett LBC) v Parking Adjudicator [2006] EWHC 2357 (Admin) at [41], if the statutory conditions are not met the financial liability does not arise.
In other words, it's a prerequisite that the signs are specified in TSRGD 2016 or specially authorised by Dft. Even if they are, that isn't enough. The signs must provide adequate information of the restriction. -
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@Ducato It's up to local authorities as to whether they make their TROs available on their website. Some do. Most don't. If you get a ticket, they don't tell you at that stage what the TRO is, but they do put it in their evidence if it goes to appeal before an adjudicator. If you get a ticket, try phoning or emailing the council to ask for the TRO. You can also put in a Freedom of Information request for it, which they are obliged to answer (but not before you have to make representations against a PCN).. . .
A lot of TROs may be found here
https://www.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/tro-library/
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@John U.K. Thank you. Unusually, West Sussex appears to keep the TRO Library up to date. It contains WEST SUSSEX COUNTY COUNCIL // ((ARUN DISTRICT)(PARKING PLACES & TRAFFIC REGULATION) // (CONSOLIDATION) ORDER 2010) // (ARUNDEL: MILL ROAD AMENDMENT) ORDER 2025.
The TRO is map-based. It was made on 20th March 2025 and came into operation on 24th March 2025. It purports to restrict motor caravans (whatever they are) from waiting between 10.00pm and 9.00am any day.
Parts 3 and 4 of TSRGD 2016 Schedule 7 specify road markings for waiting restrictions. The language is a bit technical, so I'll just state their effect. There are precisely two types of waiting restriction:- Double yellow lines: Waiting of vehicles prohibited at all times
- Single yellow lines: Waiting of vehicles prohibited for a time that is not continuous throughout the year
That's it. No fancy stuff about different classes of vehicle. I should be surprised if DfT agreed to have waiting restrictions which were selectively applied.
What DfT might accept would be parking bays (diagram 1028.6) which were restricted to vehicles other than motor caravans. These would have a single yellow line at the edge of the carriageway and dashed white lines delineating the parking bays with upright signs setting out what could be parked and when. I'm not convinced that permitting parking at all times except by motor caravans between 10pm and 9am would be a valid parking restriction, but West Sussex could give it a try.
Another thing which they could do would be to paint the outer edge of the parking bay 1.8m from the kerb. This would prohibit vehicles more than 1.8m wide (including SUVs) from parking, as well as those with less-wide vehicles who are unable to park next to the kerb. -
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I've looked some more into what sort of parking restrictions councils can impose on specific classes of vehicle. The answer is that they can restrict HGVs and buses separately or together using controlled parking zones. The signs are here. If you scroll down a little, you'll find signs which include a black lorry with "5 t" in white on it. As the text explains:Quote
In some areas, local authorities operate special goods vehicle waiting restrictions. Usually these apply to goods vehicles of over 5 or 7.5 tonnes maximum gross weight. Where the same restrictions apply throughout a zone, usually overnight, the times are indicated on a zone entry sign. Within the zone there are no yellow lines (unless there are other waiting restrictions applying to all vehicles), but there should be repeater signs on each side of every street as a reminder. There are equivalent signs for buses with the bus symbol, and signs that apply to both goods vehicles and buses.
As there are no yellow lines associated with these restrictions, there have to be upright repeater signs on plates to alert drivers to the restrictions. There also have to be signs at the end of the zone to indicate that it's ended.
West Sussex appear to be attempting to create their own equivalent for motor caravans, but without the entry and exit signs for the zone. As it's a completely new type of controlled parking zone not covered by TSRGD, they'd need special authorisation from DfT. DfT would likely insist that it included a symbol which represented motor caravans; this would be a first for British traffic signs. -
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In the 1980s the whole of the GLC area was a no parking overnight for lorries and buses. I don't know when that restriction was rescinded if indeed it has been.
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It appears that West Sussex are part of a trend. I found reports about bans in the following areas:
As this is a long post, I'll set out the conclusions for motor caravanners here: unless the local authority has changed since 2012 (e.g. Northamptonshire has split and Surrey is about to), these signs are valid.
On 5th March 2012, DfT issued special authorisations to 152 local authorities for a package of signs "Traffic signs policy review area-wide authorisation third edition". This package included a yellow plate sign specifying times of parking restrictions for motor caravans.
The special authorisations have no end date and apply throughout the specified authority. As a result, the authority can install the yellow "Motor caravan parking" signs wherever they like within the authority's area. The signs which they place are lawful and the local authority can enforce PCNs for contravening them.
The rest of this post explains how I discovered this.
North Yorkshire
In North Yorkshire it turns out that there was a ban in three areas from 2012 to 2015. This was allowed to lapse and has now been reimposed. I found this in a document which Google turned up: 2024 report to North Yorkshire Council. Appendix A to this is a copy of a report from 2015 seeking to make permanent the earlier Temporary TRO.
I set out below the section of the 2015 report which shows that the need for authorised traffic signs was recognised, and that the local MP solved the problem by contacting DfT. I have emboldened the most relevant text, but have left the rest as it shows the context.Quote2.5 Prior to April 2011 Scarborough Borough Council held responsibility for the publicly maintainable highway in the Scarborough Town area, as agents to the County Council, and attempted in a committee report in 2009 to ameliorate issues with motor-caravans in various “honeypot” locations in the town.
2.6 The report contained various measures for on-street parking and also measures involving the restriction of motor-caravans from its off-street car parking facilities (which the borough council remains responsible for) and was presented to its committee on 15 May 2009. The recommendations of the report were agreed and implemented by the Borough Council.
2.7 Part of the result of the 2009 committee report was the erectiօn of “no overnight camping” signs at various affected on-street locations in Scarborough Town.
2.8 The Borough Council 2009 report identified that there was no legislation or signage available, that allowed any enforceable restriction on a specific category of vehicle at a location, unless Department for Transport approval was sought and granted. Although it was intended, there is no record of this approval being sought or granted. Consequently the “no overnight camping” signs were unenforceable. Furthermore these signs are now superseded by a more appropriate new traffic sign which was authorised by the Department for Transport on 5 March 2012, described below.
2.9 Other examples of historic unenforceable signage, concerning the prohibition of camping, have also been identified in the last couple of years, at locations which have always been under immediate County Council jurisdiction in the wider borough.
2.10 During 2014 all unenforceable signage that had been identified was removed from all locations across the borough by North Yorkshire County Council, following complaints by individuals from the motor-caravanning community. Nevertheless the existence of such signage demonstrates the long-standing problems surrounding the practice and several recent complaints have been received from residents since the signs have been removed.
2.11 In 2012 the constituency MP Robert Goodwill raised the problems associated with the overnight on-street parking of motor-caravans, on behalf of residents, with the Department for Transport. A letter was received by him, in reply, from MP Norman Baker, the minister responsible for the issue at that time.
2.12 A copy of the letter was subsequently shared with North Yorkshire County Council for information. The letter informed that on 5 March 2012 the Department for Transport had issued an authorisation of traffic signs and special directions (GT50/113/0008) in respect of appropriate sites on roads for which the Council is the traffic authority, accompanied by a set of drawings (GT50/113/0008-1) of signs, one of which (authorised sign R) specifically shows a prohibition on the waiting of motor caravans during specified hours.
2.13 The definition of motor-caravans used is the EU definition as follows:
A “Motor Caravan” is a vehicle of Category M: (Motor vehicles with at least four wheels designed and constructed for the carriage of passengers.) with living accommodation space which contains the following equipment as a minimum:
(a) seats and table;
(b) sleeping accommodation which may be converted from the seats;
(c) cooking facilities;
(d) storage facilities
The definition is contained within European Directive 2007/46/EC.
2.14 Following the approval of the signage, on 28 June 2012, the County Council applied a temporary order to prohibit overnight parking of motor-caravans between 11pm and 7am, utilising the above-described prescribed signage, and EU definition, to the affected streets, listed in paragraph 2.4. except The Parade Sandsend, which was not included in the temporary orders.
I searched DfT Traffic Authorisations for "North Yorkshire" but couldn't find anything which looked likely. A Google search for "department transport authorisation GT50/113/0008" found it: it was listed under Traffic signs policy review area-wide authorisation third edition. It's authorised sign R on page 7.
Technicalities: Yellow Lines/Parking Bays or CPZ?
Among the conditions imposed was this:QuoteThe provisions of Regulations 12, 18 and 19 of the 2002 Regulations shall apply to the Authorised Sign R in the same manner as they apply to the sign shown in diagram 640.2A in Schedule 2 to those regulations
That indicates that the sign was regarded as based on diagram 640.2A. This was the yellow plate sign "Waiting by goods vehicles over maximum gross weight shown prohibited during the periods and in the direction indicated". That sign was used, without accompanying single yellow lines, in a Controlled Parking Zone (CPZ) applying to goods vehicles over maximum gross weight shown. The entry sign to such a CPZ was diagram 665 and the exit sign 666 (all in TSRGD 2002 Schedule 2).
The yellow plate sign 640.2 and the entry sign to the CPZ diagram 665 have been superseded by the "build it yourself" system in TSRGD 2016 Schedule 4. Diagram 666 remains as TSRGD 2016 Schedule 7 Part 2 Item 2.
I found Google Street View imagery from 2014 for Royal Albert Drive, Scarborough. There are parking bays and a white plate advising of parking restrictions. That being so, it made sense to regard the yellow plate for motor caravan restrictions as being essentially the same as an ordinary yellow plate which accompanies single yellow lines.
Other Local Authorities
I checked DfT Traffic Authorisations for the other counties listed and found authorisations for the same package "Traffic signs policy review area-wide authorisation third edition" as for North Yorkshire. I could not find anything for Lancashire.
That's because the Traffic Authorisations search is a bit flaky: the first thing you learn is that it's case-sensitive, but that's not all. The failure to get a hit doesn't mean there isn't something.
Having found special authorisations for the same package for 3 of the 4 local authorities, I searched for "third edition" and got 152 hits, which looked like all local authorities in England at the time. These included Lancashire, so I tried searching again for that, and found the special authorisation.
A comment about West Sussex: on Mill Road, Arundel, there are no yellow lines or parking bays. I think it's distinctly dodgy to be putting up those yellow plates without either a single yellow line (which is omitted if parking bays are marked) or entry and exit signs for a motor caravan CPZ. The latter would require special authorisation.
Comment for the Traffic Signs Community
I'm disturbed that DfT rolled out what should have been a statutory instrument amending TSRGD 2002 as 152 special authorisations and that it then didn't take advantage of a new edition of TSRGD to incorporate the changes into a statutory instrument. Talk about brushing things under the carpet ... and keeping them there. -
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Traffic Signs Policy Review 2011
In October 2011, DfT published Traffic signs policy paper: signing the way. Reporting that The Traffic Signs (Amendment) Regulations and General Directions 2011 would reduce by 40% the number of special authorisations local authorities had to seek, it went on to say that the Department had further reduced the burden by issuing local authorities with authorisations.
These were two sets of special authorisations which were issued to each local authority individually (the links are to the authorisations to Lancashire County Council):- 17 November 2011: Traffic Signs Policy Review Area-wide Authorisation
- 17 November 2011: Traffic Signs Policy Review Area-Wide Special Direction
The Department repeated this process three times in 2012:- 17 February 2012: Traffic signs policy review area-wide authorisation second edition (trixi mirrors)
- 5 March 2012: Traffic signs policy review area-wide authorisation third edition
- 1 October 2012: National authorisation for portable traffic signals (area-wide)
This process is relevant today because some of the signs in these special authorisations were not included in TSRGD 2016 and so, when the sign is used today, it is under a special authorisation from 2011-12. An example is the yellow plate waiting restriction on motor caravans. It appears that this sign got into the special authorisation because the MP for Scarborough and Whitby, Robert Goodwill, wrote to DfT in early 2012 asking them to do something to make parking restrictions on motor caravans enforceable.
The Department appears to have issued special authorisations to all local authorities on one further occasion:
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