Author Topic: Speeding Offence  (Read 1027 times)

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Speeding Offence
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Hi,

A while ago in 2023 I was stopped for two offences - speeding and driving without insurance. The driving without insurance offence was dropped as the insurer made error in their admin and delayed the policy start time. They accepted this and indemnified the policy.

The speeding offence is still on going, I've pleaded not guilty as I don't think I was going the speed alleged. They claim that I was travelling at 90mph in a 50mph zone and provided dashcam as their evidence. In this dashcam or any of the evidence provided, you can't see my vehicle clearly or the VRM. The vehicle was stopped by uniformed officers in an unmarked car. The statement the officer has written, doesn't reflect the evidence they've provided either. I can accept that I was likely going over the 50mph zone as it was a dual carriage way that I thought was a 70mph zone but I don't believe I was going 90mph.

As the officer says in the video, they're playing catch up, so I don't think the speed he's travelling at can be used as the speed I'm going?

I've attached the SJP I received, the video provided by the police and the officers statement. When this finally goes to court (keeps getting adjourned). What's the likely outcome based on the evidence?

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/zoz527l3qls1ig21dglec/AE8VBmBPd3Vk28Fz8Ex320I?rlkey=1w18a4dkm4h6tm4si3mcuogsn&st=89e9aii7&dl=0

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Re: Speeding Offence
« Reply #1 on: »
First, you need to redact your personal details from the attachments.

The charge is exceeding the speed limit, and you admit your guilt. The alleged speed is only relevant in determining the sentence.

You have shared the officer's statement and video. What evidence will you provide?






Re: Speeding Offence
« Reply #2 on: »
Quote
What's the likely outcome based on the evidence?

I think the overwhelmingly likely outcome is that you will be convicted.

On your own admission, you accept you were exceeding the speed limit (although you have not been too specific other than to say you thought the limit was 70mph). So what persuaded you to plead not guilty?

As above, your personal details appear all over the documents you have posted up. Might be a good idea to redact them.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2025, 12:43:13 pm by NewJudge »

Re: Speeding Offence
« Reply #3 on: »
I've pleaded not guilty as I don't think I was going the speed alleged.
The alleged offence is exceeding the prescribed limit (Not a specific speed).  By pleading not guilty you are saying you did not exceed 50mph and would go to trial if maintained.

They claim that I was travelling at 90mph in a 50mph zone and provided dashcam as their evidence. In this dashcam or any of the evidence provided, you can't see my vehicle clearly or the VRM. The vehicle was stopped by uniformed officers in an unmarked car. The statement the officer has written, doesn't reflect the evidence they've provided either. I can accept that I was likely going over the 50mph zone as it was a dual carriage way that I thought was a 70mph zone but I don't believe I was going 90mph.
From the footage posted the Police were doing well in excess of 90mph (and the car being pursued did not get any closer).

As the officer says in the video, they're playing catch up, so I don't think the speed he's travelling at can be used as the speed I'm going?
It's quite normal.  As long as they can sufficiently connect the dots (i.e. it was you and your car being pursued) then a conviction is extremely likely.

What's the likely outcome based on the evidence?
The excess sets the sentence.  For a 50mph limit then the highest band (C) starts at 76mph where 6 points is likely or a short ban (up to 2 months).  A fine of around 150% of weekly relevant earnings.  (33% discount if pleading guilty at earliest opportunity)  Surcharge of 40% of the fine and costs (Likely to exceed £600 if taken to trial).

However, 90mph could well be considered grossly in excess and the ban could be longer etc.

The alternative is a Newton Hearing (this requires a guilty plea).  That is you admit to exceeding the limit but you do not agree with the excess.  (Although looking at the footage I think 90mph is generous)

I think you should consider professional advice, especially if you want to maintain a not guilty plea.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2025, 12:46:39 pm by JustLoveCars »
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Re: Speeding Offence
« Reply #4 on: »
Hi,

Thanks for letting me know about the personal details. I've updated this on dropbox so it's all blocked out.

I decided to plead not guilty because while yes potentially guilty of speeding, I don't think i'm guilty of speeding at the alleged limit. If I pleaded guilty, that would have meant that I pleaded guilty to the whole offence including the speed they claim?

My issue is that the vehicle was just purchased that day, hence the temporary insurance to drive it home. The vehicle wasn't fitted with a dashcam or any video from my POV as the driver so I haven't got anything to calculate it from my POV, which obviously makes it more challenging to discredit what they're claiming.


Re: Speeding Offence
« Reply #5 on: »
Cool, thank you all.

So we're saying that I should probably just change the plea to guilty to benefit from reduction in fine etc instead of being found guilty at court?

I appreciate your help

Re: Speeding Offence
« Reply #6 on: »
Quote
From the above it seems like you should consider pleading guilty and requesting for a Newton Hearing.

Just for information, a "Newton Hearing" is one where, despite your guilty plea, you disagree with the facts as stated by the prosecution (for example, they say you were doing 90mph, you say you were doing 60mph). A Newton Hearing may be held to resolve that difference.

You cannot request such a hearing. It is a matter for the court to decide. If you plead guilty  "on a basis" (in my example, the basis being you were doing only 60mph) the court must decide whether or not the different versions of events would make a material difference to their sentence. If they believe it would they must either order a Newton Hearing to establish which version is to be used for sentencing, or they must sentence you on your version.

Re: Speeding Offence
« Reply #7 on: »
IMO, assuming that you are the vehicle directly in front of the camera car, I would also say that only charging you for 90mph is being generous.

When the dashcam shows the camera car is doing well in excess of 90mph, it doesn't appear to be gaining on the car being followed and even when it shows an indicated 100+ mph, the closure rate is minimal. I know that satnav speeds can't be relied on but along with the officers testimony, it will probably be more than enough for a conviction.
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Re: Speeding Offence
« Reply #8 on: »
IMO, assuming that you are the vehicle directly in front of the camera car, I would also say that only charging you for 90mph is being generous.

When the dashcam shows the camera car is doing well in excess of 90mph, it doesn't appear to be gaining on the car being followed and even when it shows an indicated 100+ mph, the closure rate is minimal. I know that satnav speeds can't be relied on but along with the officers testimony, it will probably be more than enough for a conviction.

I agree.  The police car isn't visibly gaining on the car in front even at 103mph.  It's only when the car ahead starts braking for the roundabout and the police car is doing 107mph that the gap begins to close.

Re: Speeding Offence
« Reply #9 on: »
IMO, assuming that you are the vehicle directly in front of the camera car, I would also say that only charging you for 90mph is being generous.

When the dashcam shows the camera car is doing well in excess of 90mph, it doesn't appear to be gaining on the car being followed and even when it shows an indicated 100+ mph, the closure rate is minimal. I know that satnav speeds can't be relied on but along with the officers testimony, it will probably be more than enough for a conviction.
That isn't a satnav speed on the video, nor is the video from a dashcam, it'll most likely be a calibrated video unit as it is from a police vehicle.

Looking at that video it is pretty conclusive, the police car really doesn't start making ground until the vehicle being followed brakes for the roundabout at the end of the clip. I'd agree that being charged for 90mph in a 50mph limit is being fairly generous.

Re: Speeding Offence
« Reply #10 on: »
That isn't a satnav speed on the video, nor is the video from a dashcam, it'll most likely be a calibrated video unit as it is from a police vehicle.
I did wonder but as both the SJPN and the Police Officer's report both refer to the video footage as having been recorded on their vehicle's dashcam, I thought that maybe their car didn't have a calibrated video unit.

Re: Speeding Offence
« Reply #11 on: »
You also have to weigh up the cost if you choose to represented in court. The outcome is likely to be the same and the £2k a solicitor could charge would go a long way toward bus or taxi fares should they give you a driving ban.
Bus driving since 1973. My advice, if you have a PSV licence, destroy it when you get to 65 or you'll be forever in demand.