3. NIP - Failing to comply with red light signal
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Monkeytennis

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NIP - Failing to comply with red light signal
« on: May 13, 2024, 03:58:15 pm »
Hi everyone,

I've been over to Pepipoo however it appears to be down presently so I cannot complete the NIP Wizard properly. I have used the format

NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? – South Yorkshire Police

Date of the alleged offence: - 1/3/2024

Date of the NIP: - 19/4/24

Date you received the NIP: - 22/4/2024

Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A6109 Wilton Gardens at Kimberworth Road
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes

Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First

If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? – Main Driver

How many current points do you have? - 0

Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons – I was being tailgated by the driver of another vehicle at the time of the alleged offence. I genuinely don’t know if I did fail to comply with the red traffic light signals, it’s possible that the light was on amber and not red.


As stated, i'm not the registered keeper and having spoken to the person that is, I'm informed that they didn't receive a NIP to request or confirm details of the driver until around 6 weeks after the alleged offence.

Thanks
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666

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Re: NIP - Failing to comply with red light signal
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2024, 04:08:25 pm »
Quote from: Monkeytennis on May 13, 2024, 03:58:15 pm
Hi everyone,

I've been over to Pepipoo however it appears to be down presently so I cannot complete the NIP Wizard properly. I have used the format

NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? – South Yorkshire Police

Date of the alleged offence: - 1/3/2024

Date of the NIP: - 19/4/24

Date you received the NIP: - 22/4/2024

Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A6109 Wilton Gardens at Kimberworth Road
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes

Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First

If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? – Main Driver

How many current points do you have? - 0

Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons – I was being tailgated by the driver of another vehicle at the time of the alleged offence. I genuinely don’t know if I did fail to comply with the red traffic light signals, it’s possible that the light was on amber and not red.


As stated, i'm not the registered keeper and having spoken to the person that is, I'm informed that they didn't receive a NIP to request or confirm details of the driver until around 6 weeks after the alleged offence.

Thanks
Are you sure "the person" is the RK? I.e. have you seen the V5C, and if so are his name and address correct? Is it possible the vehicle is leased?

Any other questions?
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Monkeytennis

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Re: NIP - Failing to comply with red light signal
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2024, 05:46:25 pm »
Hi. The RK is a family member so yes I am sure.
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NewJudge

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Re: NIP - Failing to comply with red light signal
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2024, 06:06:07 pm »
Have you seen the V5C and are all the details on it correct? Has the vehicle been recently acquired or has the RK recently changed address?

It is important to make sure that there was no reason for this late NIP (if you are considering defending any charge based on a late NIP). It has not been delayed in the post - it was issued late and that doesn't happen very often.

Nonetheless, whatever issues there are with the timeliness of the NIP, you must respond to the request for driver's details.
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andy_foster

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Re: NIP - Failing to comply with red light signal
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2024, 06:25:38 pm »
It is possible that the initial NIP was issued late, although this would require an over-ride.

More likely, that the address on the V5C is not the current address of the person claiming to be the RK, or if it is, then an earlier NIP was most likely sent and apparently not received.

Final possibility is that this was reported by a member of the public, possibly too late for the police to be able to ascertain the RK's details in time to issue a NIP within the 14 days, which might provide an exemption to the 14 day rule.
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BigBazz45

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Re: NIP - Failing to comply with red light signal
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2024, 06:50:58 pm »
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The Rookie

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Re: NIP - Failing to comply with red light signal
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2024, 08:46:10 am »
A Notice issued that long after the offence is all but certain to NOT be the first issued.

It is either a reminder to one (not received/not seen) sent earlier (not all say they are a reminder, some are quite literally just a reprint with just the issue date changed) or a follow up Notice after a the RK has named the keeper.

LOOK AT and CHECK the V5c, DO NOT take the keeper's word as gospel, we see too many posts from those convinced they are the RK who turn out not to be (address wrong or it's a leased or Financed car where the lender is the RK) to take peoples word for it.
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Monkeytennis

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Re: NIP - Failing to comply with red light signal
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2024, 10:03:44 am »
Quote from: NewJudge on May 13, 2024, 06:06:07 pm
Have you seen the V5C and are all the details on it correct? Has the vehicle been recently acquired or has the RK recently changed address?

It is important to make sure that there was no reason for this late NIP (if you are considering defending any charge based on a late NIP). It has not been delayed in the post - it was issued late and that doesn't happen very often.

Nonetheless, whatever issues there are with the timeliness of the NIP, you must respond to the request for driver's details.

I know that the RK is my family member because I live with them.
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Monkeytennis

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Re: NIP - Failing to comply with red light signal
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2024, 10:13:10 am »
Quote from: The Rookie on May 14, 2024, 08:46:10 am
A Notice issued that long after the offence is all but certain to NOT be the first issued.

It is either a reminder to one (not received/not seen) sent earlier (not all say they are a reminder, some are quite literally just a reprint with just the issue date changed) or a follow up Notice after a the RK has named the keeper.

LOOK AT and CHECK the V5c, DO NOT take the keeper's word as gospel, we see too many posts from those convinced they are the RK who turn out not to be (address wrong or it's a leased or Financed car where the lender is the RK) to take peoples word for it.

I've seen the V5. I've also been told by the RK that they responded to a reminder having not received any prior letter.
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The Rookie

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Re: NIP - Failing to comply with red light signal
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2024, 01:01:31 pm »
So what were the dates for the reminder?
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BertB

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Re: NIP - Failing to comply with red light signal
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2024, 01:24:57 pm »
Quote from: Monkeytennis on May 14, 2024, 10:13:10 am
I've seen the V5. I've also been told by the RK that they responded to a reminder having not received any prior letter.

At last.

Quote
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out
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NewJudge

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Re: NIP - Failing to comply with red light signal
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2024, 01:57:59 pm »
Quote
I've seen the V5. I've also been told by the RK that they responded to a reminder having not received any prior letter.

So, since the initial NIP was not received, that clears things up a little.

If you want to defend the charge on the basis that no NIP was served on the RK within 14 days, the burden falls on you to prove it. The police will almost certainly provide evidence that the NIP was posted so as to arrive in time. So long as they do that to the court's satisfaction it is then presumed to have been delivered within two working days. You will have to convince the court ("on the balance of probabilities" - i.e. more likely than not) that it was not. Proving that something did not happen is notoriously difficult and made a bit more so for you as you as you will have to rely on the testimony of the recipient.

As I pointed out, you must respond to the request for driver's details in any case.
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ManxTom

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Re: NIP - Failing to comply with red light signal
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2024, 04:40:26 pm »
Quote from: Monkeytennis on May 14, 2024, 10:13:10 am
Quote from: The Rookie on May 14, 2024, 08:46:10 am
A Notice issued that long after the offence is all but certain to NOT be the first issued.

It is either a reminder to one (not received/not seen) sent earlier (not all say they are a reminder, some are quite literally just a reprint with just the issue date changed) or a follow up Notice after a the RK has named the keeper.

LOOK AT and CHECK the V5c, DO NOT take the keeper's word as gospel, we see too many posts from those convinced they are the RK who turn out not to be (address wrong or it's a leased or Financed car where the lender is the RK) to take peoples word for it.

I've seen the V5. I've also been told by the RK that they responded to a reminder having not received any prior letter.

Didn't the family member think to tell you that they'd previously received a reminder?
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Logician

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Re: NIP - Failing to comply with red light signal
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2024, 05:54:13 pm »
To be realistic, in practical terms it is impossible to prove that a letter has not been delivered, and the police will certainly be able to prove that it was posted to the RK in good time. Unless you were a significant time into the red, for jumping a red light you would get a fixed penalty of £100 + 3 points. If you chose to fight it in court on the basis of a late NIP and lose, which is very likely, you will face an income related fine + surchage, plus prosecution costs with a guideline of £670. That would be a mug's game, the sensible thing to do would be to accept the likely fixed penalty.
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Monkeytennis

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Re: NIP - Failing to comply with red light signal
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2024, 11:20:39 pm »
Quote from: The Rookie on May 14, 2024, 01:01:31 pm
So what were the dates for the reminder?

I'm pretty sure it was stated 15th April or very close to that date.
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