3. NIP Advice please
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NIP Advice please
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Hi all

I was recommended this site so thank you in advance for your assistance, much appreciated and I've read the read this first section too, thank you.

My dad got 2 x NIP in the post one for doing 31 in a 20 and other for doing 29 in 20, both on the same road about 2 weeks apart. Thought it was a 30 didnt realise was a 20.

NIPs are dated about a month and a month and half ago.

Just found the letters as mum (with dementia) had hidden them and we did not see them (not on purpose, she doesnt realise what she does).

My question is, how to respond, do I just fill in the details on the back with my dads details, how can I try for him to do the educational course instead of points, would that be allowed for both?  It says that may be an option available only until end of july on one / beginning august on other

The car is registered to the company, but it was my dad driving, so does that make any difference how to fill it in?

Thanks so much for any advice, much appreciated.

I am acting for my dad as I deal with all his paperwork etc so am able to respond accordingly.

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Re: NIP Advice please
« Reply #1 on: »
“The company”?
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I am not qualified to give legal advice in the UK. While I will do my best to help you, you should not rely on my advice as if it was given by a lawyer qualified in the UK.
Re: NIP Advice please
« Reply #2 on: »
Yes.
The registered keeper is a limited company (dads)

But the NIP says if the addressee is a limited company the form is for the attention of the company secretary or other responsible person.

Why?
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Re: NIP Advice please
« Reply #3 on: »
Quote from: malt on June 18, 2025, 02:17:30 pm
My question is, how to respond, do I just fill in the details on the back with my dads details
Yes - they will usually accept a 'late' nomination (as long as it doesn't appear something untoward is going on like trying to architect a 'timeout').

Assuming they accept the nomination (from the company) then another s172 request will be issued to the driver - this has to be completed (and signed) by the recipient (your Dad).

Quote from: malt on June 18, 2025, 02:17:30 pm
how can I try for him to do the educational course instead of points, would that be allowed for both?  It says that may be an option available only until end of july on one / beginning august on other
At best they will only offer one.  The other would likely see a fixed penalty offer (3 points £100).

Quote from: malt on June 18, 2025, 02:17:30 pm
I am acting for my dad as I deal with all his paperwork etc so am able to respond accordingly.
Note the above when he receives his own s172.
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Re: NIP Advice please
« Reply #4 on: »
Quote from: malt on June 18, 2025, 03:01:11 pm
Why?

Because it’s relevant to the advice.
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I am not qualified to give legal advice in the UK. While I will do my best to help you, you should not rely on my advice as if it was given by a lawyer qualified in the UK.
Re: NIP Advice please
« Reply #5 on: »
Quote from: JustLoveCars on June 18, 2025, 03:21:13 pm
Quote from: malt on June 18, 2025, 02:17:30 pm
My question is, how to respond, do I just fill in the details on the back with my dads details
Yes - they will usually accept a 'late' nomination (as long as it doesn't appear something untoward is going on like trying to architect a 'timeout').

Assuming they accept the nomination (from the company) then another s172 request will be issued to the driver - this has to be completed (and signed) by the recipient (your Dad).

Quote from: malt on June 18, 2025, 02:17:30 pm
how can I try for him to do the educational course instead of points, would that be allowed for both?  It says that may be an option available only until end of july on one / beginning august on other
At best they will only offer one.  The other would likely see a fixed penalty offer (3 points £100).

Quote from: malt on June 18, 2025, 02:17:30 pm
I am acting for my dad as I deal with all his paperwork etc so am able to respond accordingly.
Note the above when he receives his own s172.

Thanks JustLoveCars for your helpful responses! Much appreciated and noted.

So I shouldn't include a letter asking for the courses, its something they will decide themselves?

I just noticed I can reply online, so does it make a difference online or filling in the form and posting?

Out of interest, what is architecting a timeout?

Thank you!
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Re: NIP Advice please
« Reply #6 on: »
Quote from: malt on June 19, 2025, 10:54:22 am
So I shouldn't include a letter asking for the courses, its something they will decide themselves?
No need.  Either it qualifies or not.

Quote from: malt on June 19, 2025, 10:54:22 am
I just noticed I can reply online, so does it make a difference online or filling in the form and posting?
Online is fine.  That may not be an option for the driver.

Quote from: malt on June 19, 2025, 10:54:22 am
Out of interest, what is architecting a timeout?
They have 6 months to commence a prosecution.  Nowhere near it here...
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Re: NIP Advice please
« Reply #7 on: »
Quote from: malt on June 19, 2025, 10:54:22 am


... I just noticed I can reply online, so does it make a difference online or filling in the form and posting?...

Depends.

Some constabularies allow you to nominate a third party online, but if you are nominating yourself as the driver, most constabularies apparently still require you to return the completed paper form with a signature.

So in the respect of the s172 request addressed to the company, it sounds like your father can complete it on behalf of the company naming himself online, but when he receives his own s172 addressed to himself, he needs to read the instructions very carefully to see if they will allow him to nominate himself online or whether he has to send the completed form back.

Online nominations will be quicker, but make sure you keep screenshots as proof of what he (you) tells them and also a screenshot of any confirmatory reply of the details given.

If he has to send back the completed and signed paper form, keep a copy and post the completed form first class from a post office counter and get free proof of posting.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2025, 01:19:50 pm by ManxTom »
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Re: NIP Advice please
« Reply #8 on: »
A limited company is in law a separate individual entity, the same as you and I are separate legal entities. If the s172 is addressed to "the company", the company by being an inanimate object cannot reply, so the company secretary or person authorised by the company has to answer. Whether the secretary, person authorised or the driver is immaterial. The company has to reply.

So if your father is the company secretary, then he has to reply. If he is the sole shareholder, then he must reply or authorise someone to do so. That person must name the driver, who will then get his own s172 to answer. Yes, it has to be done twice. The person replying to the initial s172 does not have to do or say anything else. The nominated driver has to do that when his personal s172 appears.

The good thing about a company owned car is that if the company itself cannot get points on a driving licence as the company can't drive. But failure to complete the s172 can lead to the company being fined up to £1000 and like the UK in the eurovision song contest, nul point. There is no licence to put points on. How many others are likely to have drive the company car?
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Bus driving since 1973. My advice, if you have a PSV licence, destroy it when you get to 65 or you'll be forever in demand.
Re: NIP Advice please
« Reply #9 on: »
Quote from: roythebus on June 19, 2025, 04:50:38 pm
The good thing about a company owned car is that if the company itself cannot get points on a driving licence as the company can't drive. But failure to complete the s172 can lead to the company being fined up to £1000 and like the UK in the eurovision song contest, nul point. There is no licence to put points on. How many others are likely to have drive the company car?
OP - be aware that s172(5) of the Road Traffic Act says that:
Quote
Where a body corporate is guilty of an offence under this section and the offence is proved to have been committed with the consent or connivance of, or to be attributable to neglect on the part of, a director, manager, secretary or other similar officer of the body corporate, or a person who was purporting to act in any such capacity, he, as well as the body corporate, is guilty of that offence and liable to be proceeded against and punished accordingly

In layman's terms, if the director(s) are to blame (whether through a positive act or through neglect) for the company getting fined for failing to identify the driver, they can also be penalised (which includes getting points on their licence)
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Re: NIP Advice please
« Reply #10 on: »
A lot of irrelevant waffle. 

OP, just name your father as driver online. Do it yourself and know it is done. He will then get his own request through the post. Read the instructions on that one and send back completed as directed.
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Re: NIP Advice please
« Reply #11 on: »
Quote from: DrSatan on June 20, 2025, 09:05:35 am
(which includes getting points on their licence)
You sure about that?
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I am not qualified to give legal advice in the UK. While I will do my best to help you, you should not rely on my advice as if it was given by a lawyer qualified in the UK.
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Re: NIP Advice please
« Reply #12 on: »
Quote from: Southpaw82 on June 20, 2025, 10:17:55 am
Quote from: DrSatan on June 20, 2025, 09:05:35 am
(which includes getting points on their licence)
You sure about that?
s172(5) provides for such a person to be "punished accordingly". Does that not include points (or indeed a ban)?
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Re: NIP Advice please
« Reply #13 on: »
Quote from: DrSatan on June 20, 2025, 09:05:35 am
In layman's terms, if the director(s) are to blame (whether through a positive act or through neglect) for the company getting fined for failing to identify the driver, they can also be penalised (which includes getting points on their licence)

If you don't know what you're talking about, please refrain from posting bollox
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Re: NIP Advice please
« Reply #14 on: »
Quote from: andy_foster on June 20, 2025, 12:48:46 pm
Quote from: DrSatan on June 20, 2025, 09:05:35 am
In layman's terms, if the director(s) are to blame (whether through a positive act or through neglect) for the company getting fined for failing to identify the driver, they can also be penalised (which includes getting points on their licence)

If you don't know what you're talking about, please refrain from posting bollox
Luckily I do know what I'm talking about and what I posted wasn't 'bollox', but thanks for the tip.
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