Free Traffic Legal Advice

Hi gents,

A relative seems to have got himself into a right mess.

Basically to his and his mrs.' shock and horror they received (delayed) notification from the hire car company a few days ago that they had gotten themselves three speeding tickets on the same day round trip journey. NIPs arrived in post yesterday.

Two are about 15 mins apart on the same stretch northbound in the morning, and the third is around about the same patch southbound in the afternoon.

It was a hire car and usually him and his mrs. share the driving. For the last few months, they've been doing this journey about twice a week (as part of a 4-hr drive each way) so their memories (especially given that these have arrived delayed about three-four weeks after the offence having changed hands via the hire company) are a bit hazy as to who actually was driving, but of course they'd be willing to take an educated/informed guess depending on how this is best approached. The pictures supplied are grainy/dark at best and pretty indistinguishable as to who exactly is at the wheel. 

They are very much disappointed of course, as in over 10-15 years of having their driving licenses they've only had one other infringement..

Following are the details of each one:

For the alleged offence of Exceeding 50 MPH The speed limit being 50 mph. At 22/09/2024 08:54:50 hrs
At (place) M 1 J29 Heath (North Bound) J28-J29 - Alleged speed 61mph

For the alleged offence of Exceeding 50 MPH The speed limit being 50 mph. At 22/09/2024 09:04:48 hrs
At (place) M 1 Near Barlborough (North Bound) J29a-J30 - Alleged speed 61mph

For the alleged offence of Exceeding 50 MPH The speed limit being 50 mph. At 22/09/2024 13:24:55 hrs
At (place) M 1 Duckmanton (South Bound) J30-J29a - - Alleged speed 61mph

Given their predicament (potential to rack up 9 points and be a whisker away from a ban), I would appreciate your advice on how best to tackle this, and I also had a few questions of my own to try to help them:
1) Is there anyway to determine for sure if these (or each of them) were 'normal' or 'variable speed cameras'? Trying to pin these down on google street view they appear to me 'normal' national speed limit cameras, however the NIP claims the speed limit was 50. I ask this as the relative has done a 'normal' speeding course within the last three years but ofc if this is a variable speed limit breach a motorway course should still be offered? His mrs. record is absolutely clean. I believe they are generally 'sat-nav followers' and say they couldn't say for sure what type of camera/limit it may have been, but say they do have general memories of there often being all of roadworks, average cameras, variable limits etc., but also that they can't be certain if it'd be the M1 they are talking about, as parts of the M6 and M42 are also usually on this route of theirs.
2) There seems to be several recent posts here regarding the same patch/offence and also writing to CREST/Derbyshire Constabulary for very close together offences. Is it worth writing to CREST to consider the first two (about 15 mins apart) a continuous offence, before nominating/naming drivers? If so, if someone could provide me what wording to write to them that'd be very much appreciated.

Any help as always much appreciated.

Hi, yes, I am aware of that post which I was referring to in my original post.

However, would you not think better that they try asking CREST in good time BEFORE naming drivers to consider the first two a continuous offence, such that hopefully before naming they can know if they’re ultimately dealing with 2 or 3 tickets? And if it dosen't work, then ask again when naming?

It almost feels like the other poster did so before naming the driver hence the question.

The police would (one hopes) want to know that it was the same driver on both occasions, otherwise it cannot be a single offence.

Likely variable, look here for at least one set of cameras between M1 28-29 Northbound: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/4M69%2BQ3F,+Alfreton complete with the variable signs.

What are "national speed cameras"? Are you getting confused with "average" speed cameras used mainly in roadworks on mways?

I'm sorry I don't understand

My question is were a request to be made when naming that two be considered a single offence could the response be directly a rejection and referral for the second to court, or is practice that the request is declined and the offer for course/points be made again to the offender for both offences?

Likely variable, look here for at least one set of cameras between M1 28-29 Northbound: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/4M69%2BQ3F,+Alfreton complete with the variable signs.

What are "national speed cameras"? Are you getting confused with "average" speed cameras used mainly in roadworks on mways?

According to PGPSW there is a 50 mph limit and a mixture of specs (average speed cameras) and Gatso fixed cameras on M1 between 28 and 30.

i.e. is there guidelines for this or is it just discretion of the force?).

Both. The offer of a course is entirely at the discretion of the police. However, they have guidelines which suggest they can normally be offered up to (Limit+10%+9mph) - so up to 64mph in a 50mph limit.

May be worth a phone call asking why no course was offered.

Phone call or something in writing such that there is 'time for consideration'?

Also are you able to share a link to these 'guidelines'?

Section 3.2.1 of the NPCC document:

https://npcc.police.uk/Publication/NPCC%20FOI/Operations/069%2015%20NPCC%20Response%20att%2001%20of%2002.pdf