Author Topic: Alleged Offence: Use a handheld mobile phone / device while driving a motor vehicle on a road  (Read 1509 times)

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DontStandForNonsense

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Just over 10 days ago while driving my vehicle, I was stopped by a police car and told it was for using a handheld mobile phone.

He didn't share any evidence with me and I'm not sure where exactly he had seen me to be using my phone. I did not admit or deny using the phone and he didn't ask to see my phone either. I got me to confirm my details and sign a digital copy of some sort of declaration which I think was more to do with confirming he stopped me than an admission of any guilt.

Now I never even send/read texts or browse my phone while driving. Calls I take via bluetooth which is hardwired into my vehicle with the relevant buttons on my steering wheel. I may have looked down and fumble with my phone for a brief moment to turn of a reminder alarm that is a huge distracting while driving. Of course It would be silly to not have waited for a safe place to pull over somewhere.

My work is totally dependent on me being able to drive and I fear this one alleged offence will render me uninsurable or unable to pay the inflated insurance costs in the following years which I am told 6 points will certainly inflate.

From the letter, it seems they are tell me I can accept 6 points with a £200 fine, or contest it in court.

I would really appreciate any advice that could help avoid me getting points.

Thank you in advance.

PS, In almost 30 years of driving, I have never cut a red light or gone over the speed limits.

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Rallyman72

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Unfortunately the offence isn't using it but is handling it/touching it when it is not in a holder so it sounds as if you are bang to rights. Past driving record is irrelevant. Others may have further comment though.

Southpaw82

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I may have looked down and fumble with my phone for a brief moment to turn of a reminder alarm that is a huge distracting while driving.

Did you or did you not?

Quote
PS, In almost 30 years of driving, I have never cut a red light or gone over the speed limits.

That undermines your credibility, as it’s completely incredible.

Reentrant

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Unfortunately the offence isn't using it but is handling it/touching it when it is not in a holder so it sounds as if you are bang to rights. Past driving record is irrelevant. Others may have further comment though.

See post by AGTLAW (a well respected motoring lawyer) on Pistonheads where he says

The offence is made out when driving and holding a phone in your hand and using that phone.

- all three elements necessary.

DontStandForNonsense

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Can I request their evidence?
« Last Edit: October 23, 2024, 02:30:03 pm by DontStandForNonsense »

666

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Can I request their evidence?

What "letter" have you received? Is it a Notice of Intended Prosecution (NIP)? A Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP)? Or what?

As for evidence, you can request what you like but it's unlikely you'll get it unless you opt for a court hearing.

NewJudge

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See post by AGTLAW (a well respected motoring lawyer) on Pistonheads where he says

The offence is made out when driving and holding a phone in your hand and using that phone.

- all three elements necessary.
The law actually says nothing about holding it in your hand; it defines what a hand-held device is and goes on to say that you mustn't use one whilst driving.

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Can I request what evidence they think they have?

Only if you do not take up the fixed penalty offer.  You will then be prosecuted in court and before you enter your plea you should be provided with the evidence the police will rely on to convict you. This will probably consist of a statement from the officer, saying what he saw you doing.

I think you need to ponder over this question:

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I may have looked down and fumble with my phone for a brief moment to turn of a reminder alarm

As southpaw has already asked, did you or didn't you? If you can't remember, you (and the court) may have to rely on the officer's evidence.

Rallyman72

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Unfortunately the offence isn't using it but is handling it/touching it when it is not in a holder so it sounds as if you are bang to rights. Past driving record is irrelevant. Others may have further comment though.

See post by AGTLAW (a well respected motoring lawyer) on Pistonheads where he says

The offence is made out when driving and holding a phone in your hand and using that phone.

- all three elements necessary.
The OP admitted using it, handling it and driving in his/her original post so I still stand by my comment of appearing to be bang to rights, perhaps I should have said "isn't just using it". All three elements that you allege are required are present here - holding it, driving, and using it even if that was to cancel an alarm/notification.

The law actually says:

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It’s illegal to hold and use a phone, sat nav, tablet, or any device that can send or receive data, while driving or riding a motorcycle.

This means you must not use a device in your hand for any reason, whether online or offline.

For example, you must not text, make calls, take photos or videos, or browse the web.

The law still applies to you if you’re:

    stopped at traffic lights
    queuing in traffic
    supervising a learner driver
    driving a car that turns off the engine when you stop moving
    holding and using a device that’s offline or in flight mode

andy_foster

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The law actually says:

Quote
It’s illegal to hold and use a phone, sat nav, tablet, or any device that can send or receive data, while driving or riding a motorcycle.

This means you must not use a device in your hand for any reason, whether online or offline.

For example, you must not text, make calls, take photos or videos, or browse the web.

The law still applies to you if you’re:

    stopped at traffic lights
    queuing in traffic
    supervising a learner driver
    driving a car that turns off the engine when you stop moving
    holding and using a device that’s offline or in flight mode


What law actually says all that?
I am responsible for the accuracy of the information I post, not your ability to comprehend it.

Rallyman72

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The law actually says:

Quote
It’s illegal to hold and use a phone, sat nav, tablet, or any device that can send or receive data, while driving or riding a motorcycle.

This means you must not use a device in your hand for any reason, whether online or offline.

For example, you must not text, make calls, take photos or videos, or browse the web.

The law still applies to you if you’re:

    stopped at traffic lights
    queuing in traffic
    supervising a learner driver
    driving a car that turns off the engine when you stop moving
    holding and using a device that’s offline or in flight mode


What law actually says all that?

That was taken from here - https://www.gov.uk/using-mobile-phones-when-driving-the-law

It might have been better if I'd quoted this, it seems the bit about whether on-line or not isn't actually in the legislation, even the government doesn't know what the legislation actually says so what chance do the rest of us have:

Quote
1.  These Regulations may be cited as the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) (Amendment) (No. 4) Regulations 2003 and shall come into force on 1st December 2003.
Amendment of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986

2.  The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986(2) are amended by inserting after regulation 109—
“Mobile telephones

110.—(1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a road if he is using—

(a)a hand-held mobile telephone; or

(b)a hand-held device of a kind specified in paragraph (4).

(2) No person shall cause or permit any other person to drive a motor vehicle on a road while that other person is using—

(a)a hand-held mobile telephone; or

(b)a hand-held device of a kind specified in paragraph (4).

(3) No person shall supervise a holder of a provisional licence if the person supervising is using—

(a)a hand-held mobile telephone; or

(b)a hand-held device of a kind specified in paragraph (4),

at a time when the provisional licence holder is driving a motor vehicle on a road.

(4) A device referred to in paragraphs (1)(b), (2)(b) and (3)(b) is a device, other than a two-way radio, which performs an interactive communication function by transmitting and receiving data.

(5) A person does not contravene a provision of this regulation if, at the time of the alleged contravention—

(a)he is using the telephone or other device to call the police, fire, ambulance or other emergency service on 112 or 999;

(b)he is acting in response to a genuine emergency; and

(c)it is unsafe or impracticable for him to cease driving in order to make the call (or, in the case of an alleged contravention of paragraph (3)(b), for the provisional licence holder to cease driving while the call was being made).

(6) For the purposes of this regulation—

(a)a mobile telephone or other device is to be treated as hand-held if it is, or must be, held at some point during the course of making or receiving a call or performing any other interactive communication function;

(b)a person supervises the holder of a provisional licence if he does so pursuant to a condition imposed on that licence holder prescribed under section 97(3)(a) of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (grant of provisional licence);

(c)“interactive communication function” includes the following:

(i)sending or receiving oral or written messages;

(ii)sending or receiving facsimile documents;

(iii)sending or receiving still or moving images; and

(iv)providing access to the internet;

(d)“two-way radio” means any wireless telegraphy apparatus which is designed or adapted—

(i)for the purpose of transmitting and receiving spoken messages; and

(ii)to operate on any frequency other than 880 MHz to 915 MHz, 925 MHz to 960 MHz, 1710 MHz to 1785 MHz, 1805 MHz to 1880 MHz, 1900 MHz to 1980 MHz or 2110 MHz to 2170 MHz; and

(e)“wireless telegraphy” has the same meaning as in section 19(1) of the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1949(3).”
« Last Edit: October 23, 2024, 10:04:10 pm by Rallyman72 »

NewJudge

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It might have been better if I'd quoted this...

I think my precis in reply #6 covers it:

Quote
it defines what a hand-held device is and goes on to say that you mustn't use one whilst driving.

roythebus

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Quote
It might have been better if I'd quoted this...

I think my precis in reply #6 covers it:

Quote
it defines what a hand-held device is and goes on to say that you mustn't use one whilst driving.
I think you'll find it says the opposite! It says you mustn't drive if you are using a phone.

110.—(1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a road if he is using—

(a)a hand-held mobile telephone; or

(b)a hand-held device of a kind specified in paragraph (4).

Off with my pedant's hat!
Bus driving since 1973. My advice, if you have a PSV licence, destroy it when you get to 65 or you'll be forever in demand.

NewJudge

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Touché, Roy !!!    :)

roythebus

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Haha. Two aides of the same coin.
Bus driving since 1973. My advice, if you have a PSV licence, destroy it when you get to 65 or you'll be forever in demand.

DontStandForNonsense

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Can I request their evidence?

What "letter" have you received? Is it a Notice of Intended Prosecution (NIP)? A Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP)? Or what?

As for evidence, you can request what you like but it's unlikely you'll get it unless you opt for a court hearing.

I think it's this one: "A Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP)?"