3. 9 Points + 2 incoming NIP's
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9 Points + 2 incoming NIP's
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Hi All,

I've received 2 NIP's for alledged offences withion 5 days of each other from the same camera :

36mph in a 30mph zone
37mph in a 30mph zone

I already have 9 points :

Exceeding Speed on a Motorway (SP50) - Offence Date Nov 2024
Exceeding Speed on a Public Road (SP30)- Offence Date May 2024
Exceeding Speed on a Motorway (SP50)- Offence Date Apr 2024

I need my licence for my job, do around 40k miles a year across the country.

So I guess a couple of questions...

Do I need a solicitor?
How likely is it for me to avoid a ban?

For background, I've driven for over 30 years and up until this last year or so, never had more than 3 points on my licence.

Thanks in advance.
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Re: 9 Points + 2 incoming NIP's
« Reply #1 on: »
Unless you have a successful defence to one or both of the current offences (which you haven't suggested), you will get six points, bringing you to 15.. A minimum 6-month ban is mandatory, unless you can convince the court that it would cause exceptional hardship.

Note the word "exceptional". Loss of employment is not exceptional.

The guidelines for the courts are here https://sentencingcouncil.org.uk/guidelines/driving-disqualification/#header_3 (Paragraphs 33 to 38.)

A solicitor may not be necessary, if you are confident and have prepared a good case.

Others will provide more detailed advice, and can comment on any hardship you may suggest..

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Re: 9 Points + 2 incoming NIP's
« Reply #2 on: »
Hopefully you've now read he Magistrates' guidance (especially para. 36) which they refer to when hearing an "Exceptional Hardship" argument.

If so, what hardship will you suffer that is exceptional?
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Re: 9 Points + 2 incoming NIP's
« Reply #3 on: »
Thanks for the replies.

I need to look in to the dates, my Wife could have been driving as it was around that time that she was waiting on her new car, but as I say I need to check.

In terms of exceptional hardship...

Loss of job.

I am in considerable debt that the job allows me to service, however without it I may need to go bankrupt or similar - Need to look into this.

My recently widowed Mother-in-law is cared for by my Wife, not in a full time capacity but she needs to visit her most evenings to organise medication etc.  Her job means so overnight travel, so where that does happen I provide that care and there is no other reliable alternative.

My teenage Granddaughter is an Athlete who competes on a national level, I am the only family member who can driver her to her pre & post school sessions, without which she would have to stop competing.

I'm of an age where being re-employed from a unemployed basis, may not attract the same kind of salary, so the chance of me being able to service the debt I mention previously could be a non-starter even if I do obtain future employment.

Hopefully this adds some colour to my enquire.

Thanks Again.


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Re: 9 Points + 2 incoming NIP's
« Reply #4 on: »
On the off chance that your wife is responsible for only one of these, have you done a speed awareness course in the last 3 years?

Have you asked for images 'to assist in identifying the driver'? 
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Re: 9 Points + 2 incoming NIP's
« Reply #5 on: »
Quote from: BertB on September 29, 2025, 09:42:25 am
On the off chance that your wife is responsible for only one of these, have you done a speed awareness course in the last 3 years?

Have you asked for images 'to assist in identifying the driver'?

Thanks for replying.  I've not asked for images as yet.

I attended an awareness course in October '23.
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Re: 9 Points + 2 incoming NIP's
« Reply #6 on: »
I've recieved the images for both alleged offences.  All 4 photos for each face the rear of the car, so do not asisit in identifying the driver.

I forgot to add to the potential mitigation above, that I am a volunteer listener & leader for the Samaritans and would have to end this if I was disqualified - Does anyone have a view on whether all of the mitigation would prevent a ban?
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Re: 9 Points + 2 incoming NIP's
« Reply #7 on: »
Not presenting an exceptional hardship argument will result in a 6 month ban.
Presenting one might reduce or avoid a ban. Or it might not.
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Re: 9 Points + 2 incoming NIP's
« Reply #8 on: »
Quote from: mrbluejay on October 03, 2025, 10:58:18 am
I've recieved the images for both alleged offences.  All 4 photos for each face the rear of the car, so do not asisit in identifying the driver
Is there any doubt who the driver is? The photographs are only intended to identify the vehicle.
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Re: 9 Points + 2 incoming NIP's
« Reply #9 on: »
Quote from: FuzzyDuck on October 03, 2025, 01:55:53 pm
Quote from: mrbluejay on October 03, 2025, 10:58:18 am
I've recieved the images for both alleged offences.  All 4 photos for each face the rear of the car, so do not asisit in identifying the driver
Is there any doubt who the driver is? The photographs are only intended to identify the vehicle.

Potentially yes, genuinely could be my Wife on one of them.
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Re: 9 Points + 2 incoming NIP's
« Reply #10 on: »
Quote from: mrbluejay on October 08, 2025, 09:18:33 am
Quote from: andy_foster on October 03, 2025, 01:34:04 pm
Not presenting an exceptional hardship argument will result in a 6 month ban.
Presenting one might reduce or avoid a ban. Or it might not.
Hi, would what I've already listed not constitute exceptional hardship?
That's for the bench to consider - the guidance has been posted.

IMHO the arguments aren't wholly convincing.  You would be expected to collect evidence to back up your claims and highlight the 'impact on others'.

You may well be challenged why public transport or taxi's could not suffice for example.

Quote from: mrbluejay on October 08, 2025, 09:19:26 am
Quote from: FuzzyDuck on October 03, 2025, 01:55:53 pm
Quote from: mrbluejay on October 03, 2025, 10:58:18 am
I've recieved the images for both alleged offences.  All 4 photos for each face the rear of the car, so do not asisit in identifying the driver
Is there any doubt who the driver is? The photographs are only intended to identify the vehicle.

Potentially yes, genuinely could be my Wife on one of them.
Which implies at least one is you - which will still trigger totting.
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Re: 9 Points + 2 incoming NIP's
« Reply #11 on: »
Quote from: mrbluejay on October 08, 2025, 09:18:33 am
Quote from: andy_foster on October 03, 2025, 01:34:04 pm
Not presenting an exceptional hardship argument will result in a 6 month ban.
Presenting one might reduce or avoid a ban. Or it might not.

Hi, would what I've already listed not constitute exceptional hardship?

How would you answer if the magistrates were to ask you why - if your driving licence is so important to you and to others - have you collected another potential 6 points when you've already accumulated 9 during the last 18 months and did a speed awareness course just two years ago?
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Re: 9 Points + 2 incoming NIP's
« Reply #12 on: »
As has already been stated, EH is something that is ultimately for the Bench to consider but to give you some idea of what may be considered relevant:

Loss of job - no chance, in fact this is specifically mentioned in the guidance.

Being in considerable debt that only your job will allow you to service - simply irrelevant.

Your Mother-in-law being cared for by your Wife - possibly but you would need a very convincing argument as to why your wife can't attend her mother without you driving her.

Your teenage Granddaughter being a national level Athlete, an activity which she would have to stop if you were unable to drive her - potentially your strongest argument but is it really the case?  Is there no other way she can get there?  Public transport, taxi, friend, anything at all?

Your ability to obtain future employment - again, irrelevant.

I could imagine a sympathetic Bench wanting to prevent your law-breaking to adversely affect your Granddaughter but you would have to demonstrate that she really would be affected in the way that you describe.

Finally, don't forget that you don't go to court and simply state your case.  You will be cross-examined in detail (under oath) by an experienced CPS advocate.  This will include any evidence you wish to produce to the court to support what you are saying.  Make sure that any claim you make can be backed-up by hard evidence.

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Re: 9 Points + 2 incoming NIP's
« Reply #13 on: »
Yes, ManxTom makes  very good point.

There is this passage in the Magistrates' guidance which they refer to when hearing "Exceptional Hardship" arguments:

If a motorist continues to offend after becoming aware of the risk to their licence of further penalty points, the court can take this circumstance into account.

It seems you have committed six speeding offences in two years, the last two when you knew you faced a disqualification if you committed further offences. Although you otherwise might have the makings of a successful EH argument, the court must question whether it is really as important as you suggest that you are able to drive when you have continued to offend with nine points.

You will certainly need strong evidence to back up your claims. Contrary to the above I believe the best feature of your argument is the care needed for your M-I-L. You will need to flesh that out and substantiate it. I would forget the bit about your granddaughter. Again, contrary to the above, I believe what you describe is not hardship but inconvenience.

If you are responsible for both the recent offences, you need to ensure you have them both heard together when presenting your argument. The last thing you want is to present a successful argument for one only to have to have the second heard later. You will face disqualification again and you cannot use a second EH argument using the same reasons within three years.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2025, 03:51:05 pm by NewJudge »
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Re: 9 Points + 2 incoming NIP's
« Reply #14 on: »
Picking up on NewJudge's and other comments, if your wife was probably involved in one of the speeding offences, then why can she not drive herself to MIL, and drive granddaughter to her competitions?
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Bus driving since 1973. My advice, if you have a PSV licence, destroy it when you get to 65 or you'll be forever in demand.
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