Author Topic: VCS CN - Stopping in a prohibited zone - Bristol airport - 3 x CNs in 13 minutes  (Read 360 times)

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benb76

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Whilst waiting to collect their daughter from Bristol airport in the middle of the night last month, the driver stopped in three places within 13 minutes (02:23, 02:31 & 02:36) and has received a charge notice for each of these times, for £100 each. I, the registered keeper, have returned from a recent holiday, to receive these three charge notices. Any advice would be gratefully appreciated, I have read many of the threads on the forum, today is the last day on which £60 will be accepted for each CN, which I do not intend to do. I have not responded to VCS yet. Many thanks in advance for any help offered. The date of event was 31/07/24 and the issue date of each CN was 07/08/24.

https://imgur.com/a/take-two-cn-xHcJND9
« Last Edit: August 21, 2024, 12:01:09 pm by benb76 »

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b789

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Ah, “mugs” discount. Good job you didn’t fall for that one.

Never identify the driver. Only the driver can be liable and VCS have no idea who that is unless the keeper tells them.

Appeal with the following for each PCN, verbatim:

Quote
I am the registered keeper. VCS cannot hold a registered keeper liable for any alleged contravention on land that is under statutory control. As a matter of fact and law, VCS will be well aware that they cannot use the PoFA provisions because BRISTOL Airport is not 'relevant land'.

If Bristol Airports landowners wanted to hold owners or keepers liable under Airport Byelaws, that would be within the landowner's gift and another matter entirely. However, not only is that not pleaded, it is also not legally possible because VCS is not the Airport owner and your 'parking charge' is not and never attempts to be a penalty. It is created for VCS’s own profit (as opposed to a byelaws penalty that goes to the public purse) and VCS has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NTK can only hold the driver liable. So you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
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benb76

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Thank you very much for the advice, I will do that.

DWMB2

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For clarity, you'll need to submit a separate appeal for each.

VCS can be a stubborn bunch, so you may be in it for the long haul.
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benb76

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I received a reply from VCS, see below; is anyone able to advise how to respond please or whether I should just ignore it at this stage? For clarity, I responded initially via email verbatim as per the previously advised wording from Hero Member. Many thanks in advance.

We refer to correspondence received from you concerning the above numbered Charge Notice.
Please note that responsibility for this Charge lies with the driver of the vehicle at the time the parking contravention was observed. However, it appears from what you have stated in your appeal that you were not the driver on the date in question.
You state that our Notice is not compliant with the Protection Of Freedoms Act (POFA) 2012 on the Notice issued to you; however we have not cited POFA 2012 nor stated that you are liable for the Charge as the vehicle keeper.
It is important we highlight that we will continue to pursue this matter on the reasonable assumption that you were the driver of the vehicle on the date in question until information/evidence to the contrary is provided.
In order for us to process your appeal correctly, please follow the instructions below:
1. Notify the driver of the vehicle that they will need to appeal to us directly, including their FULL NAME (Forename
and Surname) and a valid FULL SERVICEABLE HOME ADDRESS within 14 days.
2. If you are representing the driver we require a signed and dated statement from the driver of the vehicle confirming that you are authorised to appeal on his/her behalf; this needs to be an original signature and not a photocopy or a stamp. The statement MUST contain the drivers FULL NAME (Forename and Surname) and a valid FULL SERVICEABLE HOME ADDRESS.
Please ensure that correspondence is submitted through the portal www.myparkingcharge.co.uk in order to correctly adhere with the appeals process.
OR

3. Pay the PCN. Payments can be made online at www.myparkingcharge.co.uk by following the links for "Pay Now",
or over the phone by calling 0845 226 9138 and using a valid Credit or Debit Card to make payment. It is your
responsibility to ensure that payment is received within our office by the date specified.
As a gesture of goodwill we have placed the charge on hold for an additional period of 14 Days to enable one of the above actions to be complied with.
We are willing to re-offer you the original discounted charge of £60 as full and final settlement of this Notice, if payment is received within our office on or before the 24/09/2024.
If payment is not received by this date, the amount payable will revert to £100, payable by 08/10/2024. Failure to pay this charge within the stated times, may result in Debt Recovery action been taken and further costs up to an additional £70.00 been incurred.

b789

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Respond with the following:

Quote
Dear Sir/Madam,

Your latest response does little more than confirm your ongoing reliance on the absurd "assumption" that I, as the registered keeper, was the driver. I’m not sure whether to be astonished or amused by this continued strategy, especially considering your firm’s humiliating thrashing in VCS v Edward (2023) [H0KF6C9C] — a claim which has now become persuasive case law. It seems VCS has learned nothing from that ruling, which confirmed that assumptions, without evidence, are worthless in court.

Let me make this clear: it is not my responsibility to disprove your assumptions. The burden of proof is entirely on VCS to provide evidence that I was the driver. As it stands, you have none. If VCS are so confident in their flawed assumption, I invite VCS to put their money where their mouth is and take this to court. It will be interesting to see how far this ridiculous argument gets you — particularly when your own firm’s failed appeal serves as a warning of what happens when you pursue spurious claims based on assumptions.

If you do not cancel this PCN, I am more than prepared to see it through to the inevitable conclusion. It would be an amusing exercise to watch this baseless claim fall apart under scrutiny.

Yours faithfully,

[Your Name]
Registered Keeper
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
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benb76

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Thank you very much, much appreciated.

benb76

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Good morning,

Thank you for your advice to date. I have today received the below email from VCS in respect of the CNs, further to the response which I emailed to them, following your advice above on 2nd October. Am I right in thinking that there is no point in appealing to IAS (as per the option below) as from what I have read, this will not be successful? Is it worth responding to them further at this point or waiting to see if they issue debt recovery action, as per the below threat?

Many thanks
-----------------------------

Dear Mr x,
Re: Parking Charge Notice Number x - Vehicle: x
Site: Bristol Airport Post Code: BS48 3DY
Contravention Date: x
We refer to your appeal in respect of the above Charge Notice (CN) received on x.
Having considered the points you have raised and reviewed our records, we are unable to accept your appeal. Our main reason(s) for this decision are as follows:
The signs at the entrance to Bristol Airport and the access roads within, clearly state "No Stopping", giving clear notice that the land is private property and that a Charge of £100 will be levied if vehicles do stop. The above detailed vehicle stopped in a zone where stopping is prohibited and the driver became liable to pay that Charge.
In your appeal you state you were not the driver when your vehicle was seen to be stopped on the access road.
You state that our Notice is not compliant with the Protection Of Freedoms Act (POFA) 2012 on the Notice issued to you; however we have not cited POFA 2012 nor stated that you are liable for the Charge as the vehicle keeper.
It is important we highlight that we will continue to pursue this matter on the reasonable assumption that you were the driver of the vehicle on the date in question until information/evidence to the contrary is provided.
A review of our CCTV evidence has confirmed that on the date in question, your vehicle stopped for an unreasonable amount of time on the access road where restrictions apply.
We note your comment concerning the use of byelaws at the Airport; as already stated the signs at the entrance to the airport clearly identify the roads as private property and byelaws are not currently in use.
As members of the International Parking Community's (IPC) Accredited Operator Scheme, it is necessary for us to evidence to the IPC that we have relevant authority to undertake parking management at the site concerned and that our signs at that location are compliant in setting out the relevant terms and conditions of use. We will only answer pertinent points at this stage.

There are over 80 high profile signs advising drivers not to stop and warning that if a driver does stop, a charge of £100 is payable. The signs exceed recognised industry standards, with some as large as 2m by 1.1m (6ft 6in by 3ft 7in) which clearly state "No Stopping" alongside the nationally recognised Highway Code symbol for a Clearway (No Stopping). Furthermore, the signage on the approach road is reflective and positioned to face oncoming vehicles and the text size used is relative to the average approach speed of a vehicle in relation to the speed limit in force at that location.
We have fully reviewed this case and we are satisfied that the Charge Notice was correctly issued. We are unable to accept the mitigating circumstances raised in your representations, your appeal is therefore rejected and the Charge will stand; photographic evidence which supports this can be viewed at www.myparkingcharge.co.uk.
What you should do next - Either:
1. Pay the Charge Notice (CN): In order to settle the Charge, the payment of £60 to reach us by 23/10/2024 or £100 to reach us by 06/11/2024 must be made. Failure to pay this charge within the stated times, may result in Debt Recovery Action being taken and further costs up to an additional £70 being incurred. Payments can be made
online at www.myparkingcharge.co.uk by following the links for "Pay Now", or over the phone by calling
0845 226 9138 by using a valid Credit or Debit Card.
OR:
2. Appeal to the Independent Appeals Services (IAS): If you believe this decision is incorrect, you are entitled to appeal to the IAS. In order to appeal, the IAS will need the following information (which is also contained in the subject header of this correspondence).
Notice Serial No: x Vehicle Registration Mark: x
Appeals must be submitted to the IAS within 28 days of the date of this correspondence. Please visit www.theias.org
for full details on how to submit an appeal online.
It is important you note that if you do make an appeal to the IAS, the reduced charge offered above will no longer
apply. You should also be aware that if a payment is made prior to an appeal being made to, or adjudicated by, the
IAS AND this is accepted as Full and Final settlement against the CN, the appeal will automatically be dismissed and
the matter will be deemed closed. Should you appeal to the IAS and it is unsuccessful, the full amount outstanding
(£100.00) will become payable within 14 days of the date the IAS decision is notified to you. Failure to pay this sum
in the 14 day period will result in debt recovery costs of up to £70.00 being added to the outstanding balance.
It is important we also highlight that no further appeals will be accepted at this office; any such appeal must be
made to the IAS.
Please also note that further costs may be incurred should it be necessary for us to subsequently recover any
outstanding charge using further debt recovery and/or court action.

Yours sincerely

Appeals Administration Team
CENTRAL PROCESSING OFFICE

b789

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It's all template, 'male bovine excrement' that they pump out. As you can see from this simple bit in that pile of poo:

Quote
It is important we highlight that we will continue to pursue this matter on the reasonable assumption that you were the driver of the vehicle on the date in question until information/evidence to the contrary is provided.

So, they have failed to respond to the fact that "assumption", irrespective of whether it is "reasonable" or not, has no basis when it comes to Keeper liability and PoFA.

Personally, I wouldn't waste my time with IAS. However, others will disagree and it is up to you whether you have the energy and willpower to deal with the kangaroo court. If you do, show us what you propose sending before you submit anything.

Assuming you either don't bother with IAS or you do and it is unsuccessful, you would then have to ignore any and all Debt Recovery Agents (DRA) letters that follow. We are not interested in those. They are powerless to do anything and are a waste of time. Never, ever, ever communicate with the DRAs. You can safely ignore them and use their correspondence as lining for the bottom of a cat litter tray for what they're worth.

What you are waiting for is if/when a Letter of Claim (LoC) is issued. If/when you do receive one, then come back and show us and we will give you the correct response.

Eventually, an N1SDT Claim form will arrive from the CNBC. Again show us and we will provide the defence. These claims are easy to defend and almost never go all the way to a hearing as most are either discontinued or struck out at allocation stage. In the worst possible case scenario where it ever went all the way to a hearing and you were one of the one percenters who were unsuccessful, there is no danger of a CCJ on your record.

Over 99% of these claims are discontinued, struck-out or won.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

DWMB2

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The (very  ;D ) few times I have seen successful IAS appeals, they have been on slam-dunk PoFA points like this, so might be worth a punt if the OP fancies it.

benb76

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Thank you both for your responses. I am not going to appeal to IAS. I will wait to see if they issue a letter of claim.

Many thanks again for your advice.

DWMB2

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VCS are a litigous bunch so a claim is fairly likely I'd say.

Another point, if you move house before the 6 years for them to make a claim have expired, be sure to write to VCS and inform them of your new address for service.

b789

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They will eventually issue a claim. Whether it actually gets as far as a hearing is very doubtful and even if it did, there is no Keeper liability and it would be thrown out on that alone.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

benb76

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Thank you, very useful advice.

benb76

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Good afternoon, I have today received a letter of claim from dcb legal.

https://imgur.com/a/FprcvYt

I would very much appreciate your advice on next steps please.

Thank you in advance and for your advice to date.