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HX Car Park Management - Not paid for parking -Upper Mill Car Park Slaithwaite
Posted by ksi on 18 Oct, 2024 12:06 -
So in brief I'm not from the area I nipped into town for a quick walk along the canal. I noted the car park but i did not enter it. I parked outside of the entrance basically in some trees like other cars were. There were no signs here and no parking bays marked. The area itself appears to be a bit of an industrial estate. I drove in, parked and walked across the front of the car park entrance, and along the canal and did not see any signs etc on route regarding that the areas was even monitored by cameras let alone ANPR and my car did not enter what any rational person would consider to be the car park.
So my appeal would be around the lack of appropriate signage etc. My problem is that as I am not local to the area I am unable to obtain photo to confirm whether it was a true error on my part (the person I was with did not see the any signs either) and google streetview is quite old or if they have basically set the cameras up and don't care about collateral damage.
I've searched the forum and there only seems to be one issue raised regarding a CCJ. I have marked on the attached doc where the cameras has clocked my car, where I parked and where I walked. I will update with a copy of the letter once my phone has charge, from memory this is exactly how everything looked - EDIT i cannot seem to upload the attachment - however the document is attached ot the post on this forum https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/469961-hx-car-park-management-upper-mill-car-park-slaithwaite-hd7-5ha/
Can anyone help with the grounds i have for appeal etc, as i really dont think there is appropriate signage or any indication where where I parked was covered by the parking provider.
I've copied the standard questions from another forum to below
Thanks,
KS
1 Date of the infringement -24-9-24
2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 30-9-24
[scan up BOTH SIDES as ONE PDF- follow the upload guide] please LEAVE IN LOCATION AND ALL DATES/TIMES/£'s
3 Date received 5-10-24
4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] Dont think so
5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? ANPR Photos
6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] Not yet due 23-10-24
Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up n/a
7 Who is the parking company? HX Car Park Management
8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Upper Mill Car Park Slaithwaite, HD7 5HA
For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.
IAS
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The link you have provided is not where anyone should go for advice on Parking Charge Notices (PCN) and th image is not available there anyway.
Please read this for instructions on how to upload images:
READ THIS FIRST - Private Parking Charges Forum guide
We need to see the Notice to Keeper (NtK). Redact only your personal data, the PCN number and the VRM. Leave all dates and times showing. -
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Thanks for the clarification, will get the NtK sorted shortly.
I had gathered the 'advice' there wasn't the best when it told me just to basically ignore it, even though there is histories of that provider actioning CCJs. -
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Nobody can simply "action" a CCJ. There is a whole process involved and cannot simply just "happen". Nothing we advise on is ever in danger of receiving a CCJ, even if it went to court and ended up at a hearing and you lost.
If you were one of the minuscule number of defendants that ended at a hearing, lost and a judgment was made against you, as log as the amount of the judgment is paid within 28 days of that judgment, there is no record of the CCJ. It is expunged from the record.
Of all the cases we advise on that go as far as claim in the county court, 99.9% of them are either struck out, discontinued or won. -
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So in brief the driver was not from the area they nipped into town for a quick walk along the canal. They noted the car park but did not enter it. They parked (green in pics) outside of the car park entrance (red in pics) basically in some trees like other cars were. There were no signs here and no parking bays marked. The area itself appears to be a bit of an industrial estate. They drove in, parked and walked across the front of the car park entrance, and along the canal (yellow in pics) and did not see any signs etc on route regarding that the areas was even monitored by cameras let alone ANPR and my car did not enter what any rational person would consider to be the car park.
So the appeal would be around the lack of appropriate signage etc. My problem is that as I/driver are not local to the area I am unable to obtain photo to confirm whether it was a true error (another person there did not see the any signs either) and google streetview is quite old or if they have basically set the cameras up and don't care about collateral damage.
I've raised this on another post but i wasn't aware of best practice so will try and delete that one.
I have marked on the attached pics where the cameras has clocked the car, where it was parked and the route walked. A copy of the letter is also attached.
Can anyone help with the grounds I have for appeal etc, as I really don't think there is appropriate signage or any indication where where the car was parked was covered by the parking provider.
I've copied the standard questions from another forum to below
Thanks,
KS
1 Date of the infringement -24-9-24
2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 30-9-24
[scan up BOTH SIDES as ONE PDF- follow the upload guide] please LEAVE IN LOCATION AND ALL DATES/TIMES/£'s
3 Date received 5-10-24
4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] Dont think so
5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? ANPR Photos
6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] Not yet due 23-10-24
Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up n/a
7 Who is the parking company? HX Car Park Management
8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Upper Mill Car Park Slaithwaite, HD7 5HA
For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.
IAS
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Do you know anyone in the area that could get some photos for you? The GSV pictures are 15 years old. It would be helpful if we could see what signage is in place and any boundaries.
The NtK is not fully compliant with PoFA so any appeal should be only as the Keeper. There is no legal obligation on the Keeper to identify the driver to an unregulated private parking company.
As HX are IPC members, the most likely way this will be seen off is if/when they issue a claim. -
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Unfortunately not, I've searched facebook for any types of local groups I could ask in without success.
I was planning on appealing (deadline is the 23 Oct), so is the lack of signage/NtK notice the best ways to go about this? I assume they've have to produce some type of evidence that there is the correct signage and that that specific piece of land is also covered (the latter not to me but the appeals body)?
Is there a way to edit the first post to removed any reference to me knowing who the driver is? -
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I assume they've have to produce some type of evidence that there is the correct signage and that that specific piece of land is also covered?
Yes they do, but bear in mind any photos they have of the signage are likely to be taken from angles that support the view that it is clear and prominent (they're unlikely to have taken photos that would undermine their own arguments) -
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Thanks, I was looking to draft an appeal later tonight. Is there any type of template that i might be able to follow which sets out the format of which to appeal and the specific issues related to the lack of signage/issues around the NtK and their effect? Happy to research this if not but assume there may be plenty of others who have raised similar appeals?
Thanks! -
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Hi All,
Really sorry for another post but i need to submit the appeal tonight. I've drafted an appeal based on a template I've found, however one point I did want to make but don't quite understand.
Is that the letter states that the driver has entered into the contract;
however the earlier post say's
'The NtK is not fully compliant with PoFA so any appeal should be only as the Keeper. There is no legal obligation on the Keeper to identify the driver to an unregulated private parking company.'
How should I use this in the appeal?
I was thinking
'Your letter states the driver is liable for the parking charge. However, as you state in the letter you are unaware of the name of the driver or their address, furthermore the evidence you have provided does not allow for the identification of the driver. There is no legal obligation to identify the driver to you, therefore it is not possible to ascertain who, if anyone, is liable for any alleged breeched any contract term. As such I, as the registered keeper, am under no obligation legal or otherwise to pay any unpaid parking charge.' -
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Just to say thanks for the help and advice.
I've had email today confirming that the appeal has been successful (not even had to go to the independent body) and that the charge has been rescinded.
Thanks all!
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Hello,
I have just found your post, a family member has received a similar ticket for not being parked wholly in a bay.
As I was not the driver I was going to issue a response similar to the one you made above. Please can you clarify what was said and on what basis your appeal was successful so I can similarly appeal?
Thanks in advance! -
Winner x 1
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