UKPC fine for parking on red lines

UKPC fine for parking on red lines
Posted by Nicolas on 02 Jan, 2025 17:03
Hey everyone,

Sorry if that question has been addressed several times. I did a little research and couldn't find a topic that addressed that problem (that might be my fault I am pretty bad with forums!).

I recently received a parking charge notice for parking on red lines.

I contested the fine saying that the vehicle isn't parked on red lines (as you can see in the picture THEY provided) but they totally ignored that. My missus car is the little Suzuki Wagon on the bottom right of the pic and was clearly parked within the red lines.

I also wrote as "the registered keeper" asking if I was legally obliged to provide the drivers details, but they just ignored the question and came back with this letter:

"Thank you for your recent correspondence in relation to parking charge reference blablabla.
To assist us in making a decision regarding your appeal, please confirm the full name and address of the driver to our Appeals Department within seven days of the date of this letter.
This information may be confirmed by submitting another appeal on our website at www.ukpcappeals.co.uk, or by post to the address overleaf. Please
ensure that if writing to us by post that you include the parking charge reference number and vehicle registration.
Failure to provide this information will give us no alternative other than to make our final decision based on the previous information received. At this stage
a POPLA verification code will be provided.
The parking charge has been placed on hold whilst under appeal and may be settled in full at the current PCN rate of £100.00."

What should I do at this stage? The vehicle was clearly parked within the lines and I do not know how to proceed.

Cheers to you all and happy new year

Nicolas

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#1 Reply
Posted by DWMB2 on 02 Jan, 2025 17:17
Welcome to FTLA.

Before we get onto the substance of the case, we could do with clarifying who's who, as your post is a tad confusing. You say that you received a parking charge notice, but mention that the car is your partner's. You then say that you appealed, and that you wrote as "the registered keeper". Can you please confirm:
- Who is the registered keeper of the vehicle (ie the person with whom the vehicle is registered with the DVLA)?
- Who is the Parking Charge Notice addressed to?
- Whose name was provided on the online form when appealing?
Looking at the specifics now. That set up looks rather confusing - if this were a public road rather than private property, yellow/red lines generally apply across the entire carriageway, but this would appear not to be the case here, as from the number of vehicles, it seems parking is accepted behind the red lines.

Can you please show us the following:
- A copy of the parking charge notice
- A copy of the appeal submitted
You should read the following thread carefully, it also includes info on adding images: READ THIS FIRST - Private Parking Charges Forum guide

If the keeper is up for a fight, here's what usually happens with UKPC charges:
- Appeal rejected
- POPLA appeal - if successful, end of process, if unsuccessful, as below:
- Series of debt collector letters over a period of some months
- Eventually, a Letter of Claim, followed by a claim in the County Court
- If you defend this with our help, UKPC's solicitors, DCB Legal, will eventually discontinue proceedings at the last minute

#2 Reply
Posted by mickR on 02 Jan, 2025 17:34
Quote from: DWMB2 on 02 Jan, 2025 17:17
The photograph you have showed us shows the front of the vehicle is on the red lines
I took the OPs vehicle to be the little silver one at bottom right.

#3 Reply
Posted by DWMB2 on 02 Jan, 2025 17:41
Quite right Mick, getting my Asian small car manufacturers mixed up! My mistake, previous post edited!

#4 Reply
Posted by Nicolas on 02 Jan, 2025 18:05
Thank you for the response!

My mistake - I said I received the parking charge notice, but the parking charge is actually addressed to my partner. She is the registered owner of the vehicle. When appealing, I didn't appeal under my name but under hers as the "registered keeper". She was not driving the car at the time.

The road is part of a business estate called "Stadium Business Centre" where parking is indeed accepted behind the red lines. You only receive a fine if you park on the red lines. The picture they provided isn't showing much but it seems quite obvious that I wasn't parked on the red lines there.

I am afraid I have binned the original Parking Charge Notice and I didn't save a copy of the appeal. It basically said that their picture was no proof that the driver parked on the red lines and asked if the registered keeper was legally obliged to provide the driver's details (question that they clearly ignored.)

I attached the copy of their last correspondance which arrived today, where they rejected our original appeal but invited (in a slightly threatening manner) the registered keeper to provide the driver's details again.

Thank you so much for helping and being so thorough!

Cheers
Nicolas

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#5 Reply
Posted by d612 on 03 Jan, 2025 17:50
Location appears to be here
https://maps.app.goo.gl/9tmWvZjQpFwXxnTa7

All I can find of relevance from Google Street view taken a little way back from the above view at the entrance where the double yellows (on presumably the public road) change to double reds is a sign saying Permit holders only and directs drivers to see the signs in carpark for detailed T&C's.

#6 Reply
Posted by Nicolas on 03 Jan, 2025 18:20
The signes have changed I believe... I might go there to take a picture of them.
I believe no permits are needed anymore, just no parking on red lines allowed.
Cheers!

#7 Reply
Posted by b789 on 03 Jan, 2025 19:50
Your own evidential photos are always useful. However, as this is UKPC, if you do nothing else and wait for them to issue a claim through DCB Legal, you won’t be paying a penny to them as long as the claim is defended.

#8 Reply
Posted by Nicolas on 07 Jan, 2025 12:23
So it looks like I should just keep contesting the charge?
Should I just I don't want to name the driver and that my vehicle was clearly parked beyong the red lines? (and not on them?) (see pic above)
Apologies I haven't had the chance to go to Wembley and take a recent pic of the parking signs, and I need to send a answer by today.
Thank you everyone
Nicolas

#9 Reply
Posted by b789 on 07 Jan, 2025 15:39
You either pay it or you fight it. Remember, the Keeper (your partner) has received a speculative invoice from an unregulated private parking company. There is no legal obligation on the Keeper to name the driver to a private company. They are not an authority and cannot issue "fines".

I can tell you from many years experience of doing this that UKPC will issue a claim if POPLA don't accept the appeal that UKPC will reject. However, they will use DCB Legal, bulk litigator, who will eventually discontinue the claim as long as it is defended.

They hope that you are low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree and will capitulate and pay them once they initiate litigation. As long as the claim is defended, they will discontinue before that have to pay the trial fee. I say that with greater than 99% confidence.

What you have shown us is not the appeal rejection but an attempt to scam you into revealing the drivers identity. Unfortunately, you have not shown us the original Notice to Keeper (NtK) or what you put in your appeal.

In the meantime, you should reply to that request and tell them to go sit on a sharp stick and rotate. Or simply ignore it and wait for the appeal rejection and a POPLA code. Your choice.

If you search the forum, there are plenty of example of Arkell v Pressdram (1971) style responses you can send to UKPC.

#10 Reply
Posted by Nicolas on 07 Jan, 2025 16:55
That's great thank you, just sent an Arkell type appeal.

Not sure what you mean by "As long as the claim is defended" ? Does that mean I just need to appeal every time they send a notice or do I need to do something extra?

Cheers and thanks for the advices.

Nico

#11 Reply
Posted by b789 on 07 Jan, 2025 17:37
If/when you receive an N1SDT Claim Form from the CNBC, we will provide a suitable defence to submit with instructions on how to do so.