3. UKPC (UK Parking Control) parking fine - Strood retail Park Kent ME2 2AB
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UKPC (UK Parking Control) parking fine - Strood retail Park Kent ME2 2AB
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UKPC (UK Parking Control) parking fine - Strood retail Park Kent ME2 2AB

I went into B & M in Strood Kent ME2 late one Monday night. I later received a Parking charge in the post issued at 20:15:01 hrs stating:
“Parked  in a designated Disabled person’s parking place without displaying a valid disabled person’s badge in the prescribed manner” 

See PCN for details. See additional pictures taken from the Retail Car park.

I was totally unaware of this until I got the Notice / fine in the post.
On the day in question; the sign on the floor was obscured by something which led me to think it was the mother and child bay next to it, I parked in. The car park was virtually empty at that time of the night being a Monday night. There was no sensible reason for me to park in a disabled bay when there were lots of spaces available.
There were no shortage of spaces in the other disabled bays or normal bays because of the time of the night. All the shops in the retail park were closed except B & M which closes at 21:00 hrs.
I don’t park in disabled bays no matter the time of the day or night.

There are no visible disabled signage near the disabled bays or mother and child bay where I thought I parked.

The nearest parking sign (see picture ) is way behind some distance away
Apart from that I am very short sighted and use glasses 24/7
I am a regular shopper in B&M Strood. I went in and showed the letter to a manager who knows me but he was unhelpful just telling me to ring the number on the letter and explain to them. He said he cannot put my details onto the system because I am not a staff or a contractor doing work for them.
Sorry for the late posting I wasn’t aware of this forum for Private Land Parking charge.
The 28 days to appeal ends today as the parking ticket was issued 25/05/23. Any prompt and urgent advice will be very much appreciated.

Thank you in advance for all your contribution
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Re: UKPC (UK Parking Control) parking fine - Strood retail Park Kent ME2 2AB
« Reply #1 on: »
Link to pictures and PCN Invoice for the above post

https://imgur.com/a/4zAG074
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Re: UKPC (UK Parking Control) parking fine - Strood retail Park Kent ME2 2AB
« Reply #2 on: »
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Re: UKPC (UK Parking Control) parking fine - Strood retail Park Kent ME2 2AB
« Reply #3 on: »
It would be wise to edit your opening post to not reveal who was driving - talk about what 'The driver' did, and you'll deal with the matter as the registered keeper.

The notice you have uploaded appears to be a reminder letter, and they say a notice was issued to the vehicle and they have written to you previously. Was anything placed on the vehicle? If so, can we see this? Can we also see the original notice, not the reminder letter?

The signage isn't brilliant looking at the photos and your Street View link - 19.9 of the BPA's Code of Practice (there's a link in my signature) says that at least one sign must be visible to motorists without leaving their car (for the benefit of disabled motorists) and 'ideally' should be near the disabled bays. Although 'ideally' doesn't mean 'must', and from what has been posted so far the driver on this occasion would seem to not be disabled, so this is probably quite a weak point on its own.

If you are going to rely on it not being clear that the bay was for disabled motorists you'll likely need some evidence to support this - from the photos we have seen so far it looks like it is quite clearly a disabled bay.
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Re: UKPC (UK Parking Control) parking fine - Strood retail Park Kent ME2 2AB
« Reply #4 on: »

Please can you let me know where the edit button is or how to go about it.

I cannot find any button or option to edit the post.

As per my original post, it was letter that was received in the post when the registered keeper became aware of it. No windscreen PCN.

The first letter is very similar to the final reminder. It just says that there is a discount of £40 if paid within 14 days.
The first letter was received almost when the 14 days discount period was almost up.  Not sure where it is but will look for it and post it.




Thanks
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Re: UKPC (UK Parking Control) parking fine - Strood retail Park Kent ME2 2AB
« Reply #5 on: »
Quote from: JOJO1209 on June 27, 2023, 06:36:16 pm

Please can you let me know where the edit button is or how to go about it.

I cannot find any button or option to edit the post.
You should have a button at the top of each post that says "modify".
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: UKPC (UK Parking Control) parking fine - Strood retail Park Kent ME2 2AB
« Reply #6 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on June 28, 2023, 04:50:46 pm
Quote from: JOJO1209 on June 27, 2023, 06:36:16 pm

Please can you let me know where the edit button is or how to go about it.

I cannot find any button or option to edit the post.
You should have a button at the top of each post that says "modify".
I think that ability expires after a certain time (similarly to on PePiPoo) - I have PM'd JOJO1209 and offered to modify the post for him, if they send me their planned revisions.
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Re: UKPC (UK Parking Control) parking fine - Strood retail Park Kent ME2 2AB
« Reply #7 on: »
Hi

Sorry for the last response.
Saw it a couple of hours ago.
I have replied to you PM.
Thanks
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Re: UKPC (UK Parking Control) parking fine - Strood retail Park Kent ME2 2AB
« Reply #8 on: »


I challenged the PCN as the registered keeper and didn't provide the details of the driver when the contravention happened. I got this standard ( I believe) response.

See reply below from UKPC.


Dear XXX
Thank you for your recent correspondence in relation to parking charge reference 3023031xxxx.
To assist us in making a decision regarding your appeal, please confirm the full name and address of the driver to our Appeals Department within seven days of the date of this letter.
Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 discusses the recovery of unpaid parking charges. It allows parking operators to hold the registered keeper liable to pay unpaid parking charges if the operator has not been provided the name and a serviceable address of the driver.
This information may be confirmed by submitting another appeal on our website at www.ukpcappeals.co.uk, or by post to the address overleaf. Please ensure that if writing to us by post that you include the parking charge reference number and vehicle registration.
Failure to provide this information will give us no alternative other than to make our final decision based on the previous information received. At this stage a POPLA verification code will be provided.
The parking charge has been placed on hold whilst under appeal and may be settled in full at the current PCN rate of £100.00.
Yours sincerely,
Appeals Department
UK Parking Control Ltd


Any advice as to what to do next will be highly appreciated.
Thanks in advance for your time and input.
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Re: UKPC (UK Parking Control) parking fine - Strood retail Park Kent ME2 2AB
« Reply #9 on: »

This process, and subsequent appeal to POPLA and ultimately to a court, is regulated by time limits.

We're in the dark because you haven't given the date of their reply.

See para. 23.8 of this: https://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/AOS_Code_of_Practice_January_2020_v8(2).pdf
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Re: UKPC (UK Parking Control) parking fine - Strood retail Park Kent ME2 2AB
« Reply #10 on: »
Quote from: JOJO1209 on July 29, 2023, 05:25:30 am
I challenged the PCN as the registered keeper
And what did you say in this challenge? (Show us the exact wording)
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Re: UKPC (UK Parking Control) parking fine - Strood retail Park Kent ME2 2AB
« Reply #11 on: »
Hi,
I have PM you all the details very early this morning including the amended original post which you asked  me to send to you, so you can repost it for me as the modify button is not available. 
Please check your inbox.
Thanks
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Re: UKPC (UK Parking Control) parking fine - Strood retail Park Kent ME2 2AB
« Reply #12 on: »
Quote from: Ugly duckling on July 29, 2023, 08:35:43 am

This process, and subsequent appeal to POPLA and ultimately to a court, is regulated by time limits.

We're in the dark because you haven't given the date of their reply.

See para. 23.8 of this: https://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/AOS_Code_of_Practice_January_2020_v8(2).pdf


I sent in my appeal on the 24th of June 2023 at 00:40 hrs through their portal on their website.

I received a response on 21st July 2023 at 11:51 hrs by email notification to view a document.

I will post my appeal / challenge.

Thanks
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Re: UKPC (UK Parking Control) parking fine - Strood retail Park Kent ME2 2AB
« Reply #13 on: »
Quote from: DWMB2 on July 29, 2023, 10:01:00 am
Quote from: JOJO1209 on July 29, 2023, 05:25:30 am
I challenged the PCN as the registered keeper
And what did you say in this challenge? (Show us the exact wording)



Below is my challenge sent on 24th June 2023 @ 00:40 hrs through their appeal portal on their website.

Reply

Parking Charge Reference No: 3023031421...

I am challenging this speculative Invoice 'PCN' as the registered keeper of the car.

This Invoice (Parking Charge Notice - "PCN") was issued to me as the registered keeper of the vehicle, and I am appealing as such.
Strood Retail Park is not “relevant land” for the purposes of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, so the operator cannot transfer liability to the registered keeper. Furthermore, this PCN does not comply with the requirements of the POFA, Schedule 4, paragraph 9. As there is no legal requirement for the registered keeper to identify the driver, I will not be doing so. UKPC cannot hold a registered keeper liable.

As a matter of fact and law, UKPC (as a longstanding BPA Parking operator) will be well aware that they cannot use the POFA provisions because this is not 'relevant land'. If Strood Retail Park Landowners wanted to hold owners or keepers liable under their Byelaws, that would be within the landowner's gift and another matter entirely, but not only is that not pleaded, it is also not legally possible because UKPC is not the landowner of Strood Retail Park and your 'parking charge' is not and never attempts to be a penalty. It is an invoice.  It is created for UKPC’s own profit (as opposed to  byelaws penalty that goes to the public purse) and UKPC has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only. The registered keeper was not that driver and cannot be presumed to have been, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency.

If you choose to pursue me please be aware that I will not enter into any correspondence and this will be the only letter you will receive from me until you address the specific points raised in my letter as I was not the driver and there is no legal requirement for me to provide you with the details or identity of the driver.


Yours faithfully,
xxx
(Registered Keeper)

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Re: UKPC (UK Parking Control) parking fine - Strood retail Park Kent ME2 2AB
« Reply #14 on: »
Quote
Strood Retail Park is not “relevant land” for the purposes of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012
Why is it not relevant land? What byelaws is it subject to?

You say the notice doesn't comply with PoFA. We haven't seen the notice so can't advise, which parts does it not comply with?
« Last Edit: July 29, 2023, 03:14:30 pm by DWMB2 »
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