Author Topic: The vech vehicle was parked in an an area dis designated for registered users only from 21/06/25 18:11 to 18:31  (Read 1979 times)

0 Members and 98 Guests are viewing this topic.

Hello
I am was on my delivery duty on a large van 21/06/25i have to delivered parcels. The place was private property at Marlin Apartments Windmill Lane, E15 1PE. The stay was only few minutes like 20 minutes 26 seconds. So any one can give me good advice to avoid this plenty. Thankyou



Gsv link: https://maps.app.goo.gl/Bf3MEueS44hd2UqN9?g_st=ic

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

Share on Bluesky Share on Facebook


Hello
I forgot to attach pcn so here is the pcn attachment.

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

UKPC are easy to beat but it is a protracted process that is likely to go all the way to a claim before it is eventually struck out or discontinued. Any initial appeal will be rejected but you can often be successful at POPLA because UKPC signs are utter poo!
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

I will be very grateful if someone can provide appeal draft

Any initial appeal is never going to be accepted. You could simply appeal with this, as the objective is to get a POPLA code:

Quote
A ticket arrived from a shark,
For stopping my car in the dark.
I won’t just concede,
So kindly proceed
And send me the code for POPLA.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain




Thanks for the response, I have appealed last night will let you know how it went to get further guidance in case they give me POPLA code.

I received this email from them today can you kindly suggest what should i do next?

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

Ignore.
They will provide a POPLA code in due course.

Hello.

Today I've received the Popla code, can you please advise what the next step should be?

What did you actually put in your appeal?

POPLA are unlikely to uphold any appeal because they can be moronic when it comes to common sense. They will only look at whether the literal terms were breached and if so, is the PCN PoFA compliant to hold the Keeper liable if the driver is not identified.

In this case, everything aligns for the POPLA assessor to decide that the PCN has been issued correctly. Of course, they are not court of law and do not have the wherewithal to comprehend that delivering/loading/unloading is not parking and the very persuasive appellate case of Jopson v Homeguard (2016) [B9GF0A9E] would likely see this won at court, if it were ever to reach the inside of a courtroom, which it never will.

The only real appeal point you can use for POPLA is signage. UKPC signs never comply with the BPA CoP. You can argue that they do not clearly bring to the attention off the driver the charge for breach.

You can tell your company to blacklist the location for deliveries. That would soon get the residents onto their management to get UKPC to stop being utter idiots.

As I said earlier, this is most likely going to go all the way to a county court claim which will either be struck out or discontinued. I say that with greater than 99% confidence. Even if you were a one percenter, you would almost certainly win if it ever got that far.

For now, I would advise you simply appeal to POPLA with the following:

Quote
I am the registered keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability for this parking charge and appeal in full.

The vehicle in question was a large delivery van, engaged in active delivery duties at Marlin Apartments, Windmill Lane, E15 1PE. The stop lasted 20 minutes and 26 seconds. This was not parking. It was a necessary and temporary stop for the purpose of delivering parcels to residents. The distinction between parking and stopping for delivery is not semantic—it is legally recognised.

This point was addressed directly and persuasively in the County Court appeal case of Jopson v Homeguard Services Ltd (2016) [B9GF0A9E], heard by His Honour Judge Harris QC at Oxford County Court. While POPLA is not a court and cannot bind itself to legal precedent, it must not ignore persuasive authority that would be determinative in any legal proceedings.

In Jopson, the appellant was penalised for stopping briefly outside her residential block to unload furniture. The parking operator claimed this was a breach of terms. Judge Harris disagreed, stating:

The concept of parking, as opposed to stopping, is that of leaving a car for some duration of time beyond that needed for getting in or out of it, loading or unloading it, and perhaps coping with some vicissitude of short duration, such as changing a wheel in the event of a puncture.

He went further:

Merely to stop a vehicle cannot be to park it; otherwise traffic jams would consist of lines of parked cars. Delivery vans, whether for post, newspapers, groceries, or anything else, would not be accommodated on an interpretation which included vehicles stopping for a few moments for these purposes.

This is not a fringe interpretation. It is a clear judicial finding that distinguishes parking from delivery, and it reflects the reality of how residential and commercial premises operate. If delivery vehicles were treated as parked every time they stopped to unload, the entire logistics sector would be paralysed.

Judge Harris also stated:

Whether a car is parked, or simply stopped, or left for a moment while unloading... must be a question of fact or degree.”

In this case, the fact is clear: the driver was delivering parcels. The duration was short. The stop was necessary. There was no intent to leave the vehicle unattended for leisure or convenience. It was a functional, time-bound delivery stop.

If UKPC were to pursue this matter to court, they would face the same problem Homeguard did in Jopson. The claim would fail. The judge would distinguish delivery from parking, and the charge would be dismissed. POPLA may not be a court, but it must not pretend that this legal distinction does not exist.

To ignore Jopson is to ignore the law. To treat delivery as parking is to misrepresent the facts. This appeal must be upheld.

The parking operator bears the burden of proof. It must establish that a contravention occurred, that a valid contract was formed between the operator and the driver, and that it has lawful authority to operate and issue Parking Charge Notices (PCNs) in its own name. I therefore require the operator to provide the following:

1. Strict proof of clear, prominent, and adequate signage that was in place on the date in question, at the exact location of the alleged contravention. This must include a detailed site plan showing the placement of each sign and legible images of the signs in situ. The operator must demonstrate that signage was visible, legible, and compliant with the IPC Code of Practice that was valid at the time of the alleged contravention, including requirements relating to font size, positioning, and the communication of key terms.

2. Strict proof of a valid, contemporaneous contract or lease flowing from the landowner that authorises the operator to manage parking, issue PCNs, and pursue legal action in its own name. I refer the operator and the POPLA assessor to Section 14 of the PPSCoP (Relationship with Landowner), which clearly sets out mandatory minimum requirements that must be evidenced before any parking charge may be issued on controlled land.

In particular, Section 14.1(a)–(j) requires the operator to have in place written confirmation from the landowner which includes:

• the identity of the landowner,
• a boundary map of the land to be managed,
• applicable byelaws,
• the duration and scope of authority granted,
• detailed parking terms and conditions including any specific permissions or exemptions,
• the means of issuing PCNs, • responsibility for obtaining planning and advertising consents,
• and the operator’s obligations and appeal procedure under the Code.

These requirements are not optional. They are a condition precedent to issuing a PCN and bringing any associated action. Accordingly, I put the operator to strict proof of compliance with the entirety of Section 14 of the PPSCoP. Any document that contains redactions must not obscure the above conditions. The document must also be dated and signed by identifiable persons, with evidence of their authority to act on behalf of the parties to the agreement. The operator must provide an agreement showing clear authorisation from the landowner for this specific site.

3. Strict proof that the enforcement mechanism (e.g. ANPR or manual patrol) is reliable, synchronised, maintained, and calibrated regularly. The operator must prove the vehicle was present for the full duration alleged and not simply momentarily on site, potentially within a permitted consideration or grace period as defined by the PPSCoP.

4. Strict proof that the Notice to Keeper complies with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA), if the operator is attempting to rely on keeper liability. Any failure to comply with the mandatory wording or timelines in Schedule 4 of PoFA renders keeper liability unenforceable.

5. Strict proof that the NtK was posted in time for it to have been given within the relevant period. The PPSCoP section 8.1.2(d) Note 2 requires that the operator must retain a record of the date of posting of a notice, not simply of that notice having been generated (e.g. the date that any third-party Mail Consolidator actually put it in the postal system.)

If the assessor reading this really is legally qualified, they will know that without strict proof of landowner authority (VCS v HMRC [2013] EWCA Civ 186), no claim can succeed. They will also know that clear and prominent signage is a prerequisite for contract formation (ParkingEye v Beavis (2015) UKSC 67), and that keeper liability under PoFA is only available where strict statutory conditions are met.

If the assessor chooses to overlook these legal requirements and accept vague assertions or redacted documents from the operator, that will speak for itself—and lend further weight to the growing concern that this appeals service is neither independent nor genuinely legally qualified.

In short, I dispute this charge in its entirety and require full evidence of compliance with the law, industry codes of practice, and basic contractual principles.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Hi, i wrote this.
I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. UKPC has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. UKPC have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.
Like Like x 1 View List

I appealed to POPLA and the operator has uploaded the following documents, is there anything should I do at this point?

Are you saying that you made your POPLA appeal and all the operator has submitted as their "evidence" is that worthless statement? If they have submitted an evidence pack then you need to show it all to use, only redacting your personal details. If necessary, use Google Drive to host it and make sure that it is accessible "public".
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

I appealed to POPLA and the operator has uploaded the following documents, is there anything should I do at this point?

Why is that witness statement dated 2021? If they present that to a court, I'm certain their case will fail. they also have to provide photos of their signs etc. this case won't get very far.
Bus driving since 1973. My advice, if you have a PSV licence, destroy it when you get to 65 or you'll be forever in demand.