Author Topic: North Greenwich Main - Saba - TFL - failing to obtain a valid ticket or cashless parking session  (Read 4936 times)

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DVLA have now responded to the Step 2 complaint, please see attached

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b789

Saba did include a copy of their contract with the landowner in with the many files of their evidence pack although it doesn't appear to be referenced, I will now attach Appendix B which contains multiple TFL parking boundary maps, North Greenwich included. (Large files so posting in 3 parts)

Part 1



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Part 2(a)

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Part 2(b)

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Part 3

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b789, finally draft Response to the operator’s evidence below, the attached word document is formatted:

Again, thanks in advance for any suggested amendments


NtK is Non-compliant
The NtK fails to comply with Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, paragraph 9(2)(h), because it wrongly names Saba Park Services UK Ltd as the creditor. However, the landowner (TTL Properties Ltd), as confirmed in the landowner authorisation provided by Saba, is the only party legally entitled to be the creditor.
I reiterate that Saba’s NtK is not PoFA compliant because it has failed specify a "period of parking" as required by paragraph 9(2)(a). A single observation of a stationary vehicle is not a "period of parking." Even if multiple photos show the same timestamp or a short sequence, that still does not constitute a proper period. The courts have made it clear that there must be evidence of actual parking activity over a meaningful interval. This was confirmed in Brennan v Premier Parking Solutions (2023) [H6DP632H], where the judge ruled that a single timestamp or momentary observation is not sufficient and therefore the creditor cannot rely on PoFA to hold the Keeper liable.
Saba have failed to give good reason why their NtK is compliant
Breach of Clause 8.4.1(b) and Annex C.1.1 of the PPSCoP.
A detailed appeal was delivered by recorded post to Saba on 23 March 2025. Proof of delivery is shown on pg6 of Saba’s evidence pack.  Saba failed to respond with a rejection or provide a POPLA code within the time period, as required under Clause 8.4.1(b) and Annex C.1.1 of the PPSCoP.
Saba have failed to address why they did not respond within 28 days. Pg7 of Saba’s evidence: On 04/04/25 We had an email from Jaime (email address appeals@paymyparkingcharge.com) stating our account was on hold for 7 days and then a further email on 21/05/25 from Jaime (different email address customerservices@zzps.co.uk) apologising that the “the account has progressed incorrectly”. We don’t require an apology for the breach of the PPSCoP from ZZPS, we require the cancellation of the NtK from Saba due to them not responding to the appeal within 28 days. The first response we had from Saba was dated 14/05/25 (pg18 of evidence) where they stated “they were not reviewing your correspondence as an appeal”. The PPSCoP makes clear that any correspondence raising issues about a PCN must be treated as an appeal or complaint, not ignored or arbitrarily diverted to a debt collector
A POPLA code was not received until 27/05/25 from the debt collector ZZPS instead of Saba. We have had no formal explanation of why no POPLA code was issued within the time limit.
Saba unlawfully escalated the charge on 22 April 2025 to debt collection (ZZPS) while the appeal process remained unresolved and without offering access to independent adjudication. Saba unlawfully transferred the charge on 19 May 2025 to enforcement agents (GCTT) while the appeal process remained unresolved.

Saba have failed to address why they unlawfully transferred the charge to debt recovery while the appeal process remained unresolved

Saba cannot rely on PoFA to pursue the registered keeper; only the driver could ever be liable (under contract law), and only if the land were not under statutory control (which it is).

Saba have failed to address this in their POPLA conclusion. Saba previously admitted in correspondence that no penalty has been issued under railway byelaws and that they are pursuing a contractual Parking Charge only. Therefore, this NtK may only be pursued against the driver, not the registered keeper. Saba were informed of this in my original appeal. This is land subject to statutory control and therefore PoFA does not apply. Saba have failed to engage with this point or to provide any legal justification for continuing to pursue a registered keeper on such land.

In their conclusion, Saba have stated “Mrs X instead has hyper focused on the technicalities surrounding the issuing of the Parking Charge, despite being given ample opportunity to provide a basis of appeal within the appeals process”

1. The appeals process was non-compliant for the reasons given above
2. The basis of appeal was given by Mrs X in appeal correspondence
3. In stating “hyper focusing on the technicalities” – by technicalities do Saba mean the terms and clauses of the PPSCoP and Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 under which Saba should legally adhere to?  If so I’m glad someone is “hyper focusing” on the terms
« Last Edit: June 23, 2025, 04:06:53 pm by Fal3 »

Excellent rebuttal to their evidence and reinforces why the PCN is not valid.

It's just POPLA so, even if it is not successful, the decision is not binding on you and has no bearing on anything going forwards. If that is not successful, it will only highlight how useless POPLA is and why a real, fully regulated Code of Practice is long overdue. We already know how POPLA is unreliable.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

I've received a moderator report asking me to remove an unredacted attachment - can you advise which of the 6 documents you have uploaded you would like me to remove?

Please ignore - I've managed to remove it myself, thanks

Finally received a reply to my complaint about the original fob-off response to the FoI and it is revealing, whilst attempting to obfuscate at the same time:

Quote
Dear B789
 
I am contacting you in relation to your request for an internal review concerning the response provided to FOI-0703-2526. Following your email of 29 May a review has been carried out by an independent review panel (‘the panel’) consisting of individuals who were not involved in the handling of your request.
 
To confirm, your original request asked for the following -

Please confirm whether the North Greenwich Station Car Park (postcode SE10 0PH), currently managed by Saba Park Services UK Ltd on behalf of TTL Properties Limited, remains subject to the TfL Railway Byelaws 2011. If the site was ever subject to those byelaws and they have since been revoked or superseded, please provide details of the revocation or modification.

Following the response to FOI-0703-2526 your subsequent email of 29 May stated -

This is an evasive and legally inadequate answer that does not address the substance of the request. The question was not whether Saba UK chooses to enforce parking under PoFA, but whether the land itself at North Greenwich Station remains subject to TfL Railway Byelaws 2011, as made under the Greater London Authority Act 1999.

My request was specific and factual. It sought:

• Confirmation of whether byelaws currently apply to the land at SE10 0PH;
• If they do not apply, whether and when they were formally revoked or superseded, and by what legal or administrative mechanism.

Your answer did not provide this. It simply restated the operator’s current enforcement choice, which is legally irrelevant to the land’s status under PoFA 2012 Schedule 4.

For the record, unless and until TfL formally revokes its byelaws over a specific site, or unless the site is reclassified through a published legal instrument, that land remains subject to statutory control. A contractor’s self-declared reliance on civil enforcement does not alter the legal classification of the land.

I therefore request the following as part of this internal review:

1. A proper response confirming the legal status of the land, not the practices of the contractor;
2. Copies or references to any documents or orders showing revocation, disapplication or amendment of the TfL Railway Byelaws 2011 as they apply to North Greenwich Station Car Park;
3. An explanation of why my original question was not properly addressed.
[/i]

The panel have liaised with the appropriate subject matter experts and we have been unable to identify the specific information you seek in the contract that we hold with SABA UK. Additionally our legal team have liaised with SABA UK and they have also been unsuccessful in locating recorded confirmation of what you seek. Therefore on the balance of probabilities the panel agree that it’s likely the information is not held.  Please accept our apologies for any inconvenience that may have been caused.

With respect of the Byelaws the contract with SABA UK states the following -

- 21. Compliance with Policies and Law
21.1.2 shall provide the Services in compliance with and shall ensure that the Service Provider's Personnel comply with all requirements of all Acts of Parliament, statutory instruments, court orders, regulations, directives, European Community decisions (insofar as legally binding), bye-laws, treaties and other regulatory requirements relevant to either or both of the Service Provider's or the Authority's business, from time to time in force which are or may become applicable to the Services. The Service Provider shall promptly notify the Authority if the Service Provider is required to make any change to the Services for the purposes of complying with its obligations under this Clause 21.1.2;

SCHEDULE 9 – FORM OF COLLATERAL WARRANTY
1.3 shall comply with all the requirements of any Act of Parliament, Statutory Instrument or Order or any other regulation having the force of law or bye-law and all regulatory requirements relevant to the Subcontractor's business and/or the Authority's business from time to time in force which are or may become applicable to the Subcontract Services;
[/i]

The panel hope the above information provides satisfactory clarification, however if you are dissatisfied with the internal review actions to date please do not hesitate to contact me or alternately you can refer the matter to the independent authority responsible for enforcing the Freedom of Information Act, at the following address:
 
Information Commissioner’s Office
Wycliffe House
Water Lane
Wilmslow
Cheshire SK9 5AF
 
A complaint form is also available on the ICO’s website (www.ico.org.uk).
 
Yours sincerely
 
Emma Flint
Principal Information Access Adviser
FOI Case Management Team
Transport for London
foi@tfl.gov.uk

So, what does this mean? TfL has not explicitly confirmed that the land was ever subject to the TfL Railway Byelaws 2011 or otherwise under statutory control.

Their responses:

• Avoid the historical status of the land entirely;
• Only state that “Saba UK are not subject to TfL Byelaws” (an irrelevant point about the contractor's operations, not land classification);
• Admit they have no record of any revocation, disapplication, or amendment.

This means:

• They have not confirmed that the land was ever subject to byelaws;
• But also cannot show that the land is not subject to them now.

The legal consequence of that omission is that under public law and statutory interpretation, the principle is that Byelaws remain in force until formally revoked or superseded. So if the land was ever covered by TfL Railway Byelaws (as is likely for a car park attached to a TfL station), the absence of revocation supports the presumption that the land is still under statutory control.

Therefore, the burden lies with TfL to prove that the byelaws do not apply. TfL has no documentary record revoking the application of byelaws to North Greenwich Station Car Park.

TfL and SABA have no documentation revoking the Railway Byelaws or reclassifying the land. This supports the original position: byelaws remain in force unless explicitly revoked.

They do not state the land is “relevant land” under Schedule 4 of PoFA. They merely say that SABA enforces under PoFA contractually, which (as I pointed out) is not determinative of land status.

TfL cites general legal compliance clauses from its SABA contract (Clause 21.1.2 and Schedule 9) — but these do not answer the question of whether the land itself is legally subject to byelaws. They simply say that the contractor must obey laws in general.




So, in the absence of a formal statutory instrument, a TfL resolution repealing byelaws over the land or a reclassification of the site under Schedule 4 of PoFA, the legal presumption is that North Greenwich Station Car Park remains land under statutory control.

As such:

• SABA cannot rely on PoFA to hold the registered keeper liable;
• The NtK naming SABA as creditor is non-compliant with PoFA para. 9(2)(h);
• Continued pursuit of the keeper is a breach of both the Private Parking Single Code of Practice and DVLA’s KADOE contract;
• The ICO and BPA should now be formally notified of TfL’s admission and the implications of SABA continuing enforcement against the keeper.

I have responded to Ms Flint with the following:

Quote
Re: Internal Review – FOI-0703-2526 – North Greenwich Station Car Park

Dear Ms Flint,

Thank you for your response to the internal review concerning FOI-0703-2526.

I note that the panel has not confirmed whether the land at North Greenwich Station Car Park (postcode SE10 0PH) was ever subject to the TfL Railway Byelaws 2011. However, given the car park is physically attached to a TfL-operated station, it is reasonable to presume that it was, at some stage, subject to statutory control. The fact that neither TfL nor its contractor holds any record of a formal revocation, disapplication, or legal modification of those byelaws strengthens the legal presumption that the land remains under statutory control.

The Freedom of Information Act requires a public authority to confirm or deny the existence of the requested information. The internal review outcome confirms that there is no record revoking or superseding the byelaws in relation to this land. That omission is highly significant: under settled legal principles, byelaws remain in force unless expressly repealed or amended by a competent authority.

In this context, your statement that “Saba UK are not subject to TfL Byelaws” is legally irrelevant. The issue is not whether SABA chooses to operate under PoFA, but whether the land itself is “relevant land” for the purposes of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. That is a statutory question which cannot be determined by contractor preference or enforcement style.

This raises a serious concern: SABA UK is currently enforcing parking charges against registered keepers under PoFA 2012, on land which appears to remain under statutory control. Additionally, the Notice to Keeper issued in this case identifies SABA Park Services UK Ltd as the creditor, despite SABA’s own authorisation document confirming that TTL Properties Ltd is the landowner and creditor. These errors suggest breaches of both PoFA and the DVLA’s KADOE contract.

Thank you again for confirming that no record of revocation is held. This correspondence will be submitted to the DVLA and the Information Commissioner’s Office as part of a formal complaint regarding unlawful data processing and improper use of the PoFA framework on land presumed to remain non-relevant for statutory purposes.

Yours sincerely,

B789
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Thanks b789. Following this information do I need to act on anything in advance of the POPLA decision?

It's too late to submit additional evidence to POPLA. If the operator has not yet submitted their evidence for you to respond to, you could try and introduce this FoI information that basically confirms that TfL Byelaws have never been revoked and therefore the land is still under statutory control and therefore there can be no Keeper liability.

However, I wouldn't worry too much about POPLA if they do not cancel the PCN. Their decision is not binding on you and has no effect on anything going forwards. The FoI would be very useful if this were to ever go to court although the odds of that ever getting that far are slim to none, even a claim is issued.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
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POPLA appeal Decision
Unsuccessful

Assessor summary of operator case
The operator has issued the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) due to failing to obtain a valid ticket or cashless parking season.

Assessor summary of your case
The appellant has provided a detailed account surrounding the parking event in question. For the purpose of my report, I have summarised the grounds raised into the points below. • The appellant stated that The NtK fails to comply with Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, paragraph 9 there is no landowner authority. • A detailed appeal was delivered by recorded post to Saba on 23 March 2025. Saba failed to respond with a rejection or provide a POPLA code within the time period, as required under Clause 8.4.1(b) and Annex C.1.1 of the PPSCoP. • The appellant stated the operator unlawfully escalated the charge on 22 April 2025 to debt collection while they appeal. The appellant has provided 1. Copy of the parking charge notice. 2. Copy of the landowner authority. 3. Copy of their appeal. 4. Response from operator. After reviewing the operator’s evidence, the appellant the appellant has raised other mitigation factors to the appeal that have not been previously raised and therefore will not be included in the appeal. All of the above has been considered in making my determination.

Assessor supporting rational for decision
When assessing an appeal POPLA considers if the operator has issued the parking charge notice correctly and if the driver has complied with the terms and conditions for the use of the car park. The operator has provided photographic evidence of the signage in place in the car park, which detail the terms and conditions of parking. The signs advise payment for parking must be made y 04:29 upon entering the carpark. The motorist is also advised that failure to comply with the terms and conditions will result in a PCN being issued for £100. As a member of the British Parking Association the operator is required to comply with the British Parking Association single code of practice. The operator has provided ANPR images of the vehicle entering the carpark at 08:45 and leaving the carpark at 17:15 to show the vehicle was on site for 2 hours and 11 minutes. The operator has also provided a site map and photos of all signage to demonstrate that clear terms and conditions are viewable to all users and the tariff charges for the duration of the users stay and how to pay for this. The appellant stated that The NtK fails to comply with Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, paragraph 9 there is no landowner authority. A copy of the Landowner Authority has been supplied by the operator and there is a valid contract for the operator to manage parking at this site including issuing Parking Charges for breaches of terms and conditions. This document is complaint with the British Parking Associate single code of practice Section 14. This document does show that the contract started on 10/01/23. The operator would therefore be authorised to manage parking and enforcement on this car park. The appellant stated A detailed appeal was delivered by recorded post to Saba on 23 March 2025. Saba failed to respond with a rejection or provide a POPLA code within the time period, as required under Annex C appeals. From reviewing this on the single code of practice it states that the Driver may appeal the parking charge in accordance with clause 8.4 however where a NTK or NTH has been issued in accordance with POFA, the keeper or hirer may appeal the parking charge if the driver has not previously been given the opportunity to appeal. Where no appeal is made within 28 days of the first notice then the right to appeal is lost subject to 8.4.1c. this give no timeframe of when the operator needs to reply to the appeal and therefore this factor will not be upheld. The appellant stated the operator unlawfully escalated the charge on 22 April 2025 to debt collection while they appeal. Unfortunately we have no control over the operator starting debt collection proceedings for an unpaid parking charge. POPLAs role is to see what the parking charge was issued and weather the breach of the terms and conditions had taken place and should be upheld. From reviewing the evidence the parking charge was issued as the appellant failed to pay for the duration of their stay. As the appellant was on site for 8 hours and 31 minutes and did not pay for parking, they have breached the terms and conditions and therefore the parking charge notice was issued correctly. POPLA’s role is to assess if the operator has issued the charge in accordance with the conditions of the contract. As the terms and conditions of the car park have not been met, as the appellant failed to pay for the duration of their stay, I conclude that the operator has issued the parking charge correctly, and the appeal is refused.


As far as I can see they haven't addressed all of the appeal, notably the fact that Saba wrongly named as the creditor and the land is under statutory control

I'm also not sure where they get 2 hours 11 minutes from part way down their conclusion

Is there anything I should now act on following this decision?


I already mentioned earlier that a POPLA decision is not binding and, as you can see, irrelevant when their own assessors are too intellectually malnourished to understand the most basic contract law and PoFA.

You must ignore all upcoming useless debt recovery letters. As already pointed out, debt collectors are powerless to do anything except to try and persuade the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree to pay up out of ignorance and fear.

If you ever receive a Letter of Claim (LoC) then come back and we can easily deal with it. For the time being, you can send the following complaint to POPLA but it will not alter their decision but it will keep a paper trail that evidences their utter uselessness.

Quote
To: complaints@popla.co.uk

Subject: Formal Complaint – Flawed Adjudication and Material Errors in POPLA Decision [POPLA REF]

Dear POPLA Complaints Team,

I am writing to raise a formal and extremely serious complaint regarding the handling of my appeal against a Parking Charge Notice issued by Saba Park Services UK Ltd at North Greenwich Station Car Park (PCN ref: [INSERT PCN REF]). The decision issued by your assessor is factually flawed, legally unsound, and has utterly failed to address the key grounds raised in the appeal. The conduct and competence of the assessor fall far below any acceptable standard for a supposed adjudicative body.

This is not merely a difference of opinion. The decision was reached on the basis of material misstatements of the law, a failure to consider the evidence, and a complete lack of engagement with the arguments advanced. I set out below the specific failings:

1. Incorrect Creditor Identified on the Notice to Keeper – PoFA Non-Compliance
The appeal clearly explained that the Notice to Keeper (NtK) was non-compliant with Paragraph 9(2)(h) of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 because Saba Park Services UK Ltd is not the creditor. The contract provided by Saba themselves explicitly states on page 1:

The Landowner is the creditor for all notices of parking charge issued...

That landowner is TTL Properties Limited, as named throughout the contract. This alone invalidates the NtK for the purpose of transferring liability to the registered keeper.

However, the POPLA assessor ignored this decisive contractual clause and, without justification or analysis, accepted the false premise that Saba is the creditor. This is a demonstrable misreading of the operator’s own evidence. As a result, the entire decision is based on an unsound legal foundation. This represents an inexcusable level of negligence in evaluating the evidence and is a fundamental flaw in the decision.

2. Failure to Specify a Period of Parking – PoFA 9(2)(a) Breach Overlooked
The NtK does not specify a period of parking. It merely lists a date of contravention, without any entry or exit time or stated duration. The requirement under PoFA is clear: a “period of parking” must be identified. A single observation or timestamp is not sufficient.

This was clearly explained in the appeal and supported by persuasive County Court appellate authority in Brennan v Premier Parking Solutions (2023) [H6DP632H], which was cited and ignored. This fundamental error shows either the assessor’s lack of basic legal competence or an unwillingness to apply PoFA correctly.

3. PPSCoP Breach – Appeal Response Overdue
A postal appeal was received by Saba on 23 March 2025 (confirmed in their evidence), yet no response or POPLA code was issued within the 28-day period required by Clause 8.4.1(b) and Annex C.1.1 of the Private Parking Single Code of Practice.

The assessor wrongly claimed that “there is no timeframe for a response”, a statement which is demonstrably false and suggests a complete lack of familiarity with the relevant Code. This alone undermines the integrity of the entire decision.

4. Failure to Address the Land Status – No Relevant Land under PoFA
The appeal made it clear that the car park forms part of land historically subject to statutory control under Transport for London (TfL) byelaws. Such land is not relevant land for the purposes of PoFA and therefore keeper liability cannot arise.

The assessor completely ignored this point. POPLA cannot lawfully assume PoFA applies when the statutory status of the land has been questioned and left unresolved. Again, no attempt was made to examine this issue, even though it fundamentally impacts liability.

5. Lack of Accountability and Systemic Concerns
POPLA is widely recognised as operating without external oversight. It is not subject to regulation by any truly independent ombudsman or appeals mechanism. When a decision is plainly wrong, as in this case, there is no recourse or appeal – only this opaque internal “complaints process”, which never reverses a decision, even where an error is accepted.

Your assessor in this case has shown such a profound lack of understanding of both the legislation and evidence that their competence to make judicial-style decisions must be questioned. There is an urgent need for either retraining or removal from their role.

These systemic issues will, I believe, be addressed when the Private Parking (Code of Practice) Act 2019 is finally implemented and an independent appeals service replaces POPLA. When that happens, few outside the parking industry will mourn the loss of a body that has become synonymous with misjudgments, inconsistency, and a refusal to accept accountability.

I formally request the following:

• That this case is reviewed by a senior legal assessor or adjudicator not involved in the original decision;
• That a written response is provided addressing each of the above points and outlining what action will be taken to remedy this miscarriage of justice.

Should POPLA fail to acknowledge or rectify this defective decision, I will treat the matter as further evidence of POPLA’s structural unfitness to serve as an independent adjudicator and will ensure that this case is included in future submissions to Parliament and the Department for Transport regarding the need for urgent reform and replacement of POPLA under the Private Parking (Code of Practice) Act 2019.

Yours sincerely,

[Your Name]

[Your Contact Details]
[Date]
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Ok thank you, the complaint has been submitted
« Last Edit: August 01, 2025, 03:14:04 pm by Fal3 »