Author Topic: Smart Parking Notice  (Read 1730 times)

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Re: Smart Parking Notice
« Reply #15 on: »
Ideally, you should do all 3 - they're all written for you, so shouldn't take too long.

Re: Smart Parking Notice
« Reply #16 on: »
Will do. Thanks

Re: Smart Parking Notice
« Reply #17 on: »
All 3 have been done now, thank you.
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Re: Smart Parking Notice
« Reply #18 on: »
Smart Parking have replied to the POPLA appeal. I attached the anonymised document. Noticed they have not mentioned at all the date on which the PCN was sent - which is the key element. The only mention the date of alleged offence and the date on which they received the driver details. 14/04 and 23/04. Although this second date was 24/04 on their original response to me.

For clarity.

Original dates
  • 14/04 alleged offence
  • 28/04 date of PCN issue

Dates Smart Parking are now talking about with POPLA
  • 14/04 alleged offence
  • 23/04 "after which the PC was promptly issued

They have, however uploaded the PCN, which shows the original dates. Should I just re-point out the dates shown on the PCN and the 2 days delivery requirement?

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Re: Smart Parking Notice
« Reply #19 on: »
Presumably this is their submission to POPLA, in which case you need to rebut their lies as you say. Given their track record, it’s hard to describe what they say in their third paragraph otherwise.

Also point out that the date on which the registered keeper’s details were received is their problem, trying to claim that it’s OK to send out the notice late because of this is irrelevant.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2025, 01:09:19 pm by jfollows »

Re: Smart Parking Notice
« Reply #20 on: »
What do you think to this response? Any comments welcome.

Quote
As shown in the operator documents, the copy of the PCN provides the relevant dates as: Date of Contravention of 14/04/2025 and Date Issued as 28/04/2025.

Adding on 2 days expected for delivery = 30/04/2025.

This is 16 days and outside of the 14 day window allowed.

Further to this, Smart Parking EW are deliberately providing other dates without highlighting the date on which the PC was sent. Detailed below:

- Letter dated May 19th, included in the Operator evidence “the registered keeper details were received on 24.04.2025, after which the Parking Charge (PC) was promptly issued”
- POPLA appeal received on May 22nd. “the registered keeper details were received on 23/04/2025, after which the PC was promptly issued within the 14 days required under POFA 2012”

The PC arrived at the intended address on May 7th. Nine days after the alleged PC issue date.

Re: Smart Parking Notice
« Reply #21 on: »
I think you should quote and refer to the legislation, see https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4

And quote the rubbish written by Smart in this document to explain why it is nonsense.

Actual arrival date is not relevant.

POPLA needs careful leading to come to the right conclusion. Don’t confuse them!
« Last Edit: May 22, 2025, 01:34:03 pm by jfollows »

Re: Smart Parking Notice
« Reply #22 on: »
Thanks, that was already done in the original POPLA appeal, but you think I should do it again - basically reiterating the original appeal?

I understand that the arrival date is not relevant. Although I still find it bewildering. As in, you could easily make a process to printout a PCN Issue date of today minus X working days.

Re: Smart Parking Notice
« Reply #23 on: »
See the following recent case you can adapt:
Point #2 isn't relevant to this case of course, but point #1 is.

The fact they've quoted 2 different dates on which they received your details* is evidence of their incompetence, but doesn't really affect your appeal points, so including it may simply serve as a distraction from the salient appeal grounds.

Likewise the point around when you actually received the notice. The presumption that a notice served by post is delivered 2 working days later can be challenged, but in this case there's no benefit to doing so - even if you use the date it was presumed delivered, that is still too late to be compliant. As such, trying to argue against the presumed date of delivery merely risks serving as a distraction.

* As a side, it may be worth making a Subject Access Request to DVLA, asking them which companies accessed your data under the KADOE contract in April - what date the request(s) were made, and what date any response was sent. One of the dates provided by Smart is clearly incorrect, and this can be highlighted in the various complaints processes you currently have underway outside of POPLA.

Re: Smart Parking Notice
« Reply #24 on: »
Up to you.

But put yourself in the shoes of the POPLA assessor who gets assigned your rebuttal, if it were me and the first thing it said was along the lines of “for reasons I’m not going to repeat, go and look at my original response” I’d be annoyed. I think you need to make it easy for them.
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Re: Smart Parking Notice
« Reply #25 on: »
Thanks both. Reworded as below:
Quote
Smart Parking EW’s response fails to adequately rebut the grounds of my appeal. Much of their response is irrelevant, and those sections that are relevant misrepresent both the law and the circumstances of this case.

As shown in the operator documents, the copy of the PCN provides the relevant dates as follows:

Date of Contravention = 14/04/2025

Date Issued = 28/04/2025

In their responses (excerpts below), Smart Parking EW state when keeper details are received from the DVLA, which is irrelevant.
 
- Letter dated May 19th, included in the Operator evidence “the registered keeper details were received on 24.04.2025, after which the Parking Charge (PC) was promptly issued”
- POPLA appeal received on May 22nd. “the registered keeper details were received on 23/04/2025, after which the PC was promptly issued within the 14 days required under POFA 2012”

Smart Parking EW are also incorrect to say that PoFA requires a notice to be issued within 14 days. As already outlined in my appeal, PoFA requires a notice to be delivered within 14 days. The date of presumed delivery, as per 9(6) of PoFA, is 2 working days after the date of issue. As clearly seen in Smart Parking EW's own evidence, the PCN was issued on 28/04/2025, and is therefore presumed delivered 2 working days later. This means it was delivered on 30/04/2025, 16 days after the incident, and therefore not within the 14 days required by PoFA.

Re: Smart Parking Notice
« Reply #26 on: »
It matters no one iota what date they applied to and received your DVLA Keeper data. What matters is the date they issued the Notice to Keeper (NtK).

Date of alleged contravention 14th April 2025. Date of issue of the NtK 28th April 2025. Therefore the date the NtK was given was 30th April 2025.

The relevant period for serving (giving) the NtK is within 14 days after the date of the alleged contravention. Basic maths, which the incompetents at (not so) Smart Parking so not seem able to comprehend, most likely sue to intellectual malnourishment, shows anyone who has a grade 5 education or higher that it was given 16 days after.

So, this single point is enough to fatally lose the case for (not so) Smart. Your response only needs to highlight this to the assessor that there can be no Keeper liability and the driver has not been identified.

However, they have, conveniently, failed to produce a copy of the original NtK in their evidence pack (I wonder why?). The POPLA assessor will not have a copy of this and they will be relying on the word of (not so) Smart and you cannot add evidence at this stage. So, it needs to be made exceptionally clear to the assessor that (not so) Smart are a bunch of lying bar stewards and highlight that their waffle about the date the DVLA data was received is not the date that the NtK was issued. Good luck with that.

It's a pity that no demand that (not so) Smart evidence a valid contract flowing from the landowner that authorises them to operate and issue PCNs at the location. Unfortunately you cannot introduce new facts in your response, but I would hazard a guess that they do not and never have had a valid contract.

All you need for your response to the operators evidence is to copy and paste the following into the webform:

Quote
This comment responds to the operator’s evidence and reinforces the primary ground of appeal: that no keeper liability can apply because the Notice to Keeper (NtK) was not issued and therefore given within the strict time limits of the "relevant period" required by Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA).

The operator is attempting to mislead the POPLA assessor by asserting that they received the DVLA data on 23rd April 2025 and then "promptly" issued the PCN. This is entirely irrelevant. The legal requirement under paragraph 9(4) and 9(6) of PoFA is that the NtK must be given to the keeper within 14 days of the alleged parking contravention.

The date of the alleged contravention was 14th April 2025. The NtK was issued on 28th April 2025, as stated in my appeal and not disputed by the operator. Under PoFA 9(6), a notice sent by post is deemed “given” on the second working day after posting, which in this case is 30th April 2025.

That is 16 days after the alleged parking event – two days too late. It is therefore outside the strict statutory deadline. There is no dispute that I, the appellant, have not been identified as the driver and am under no legal obligation to do so. Accordingly, the operator cannot rely on PoFA to transfer liability to me as the Keeper.

Crucially, the operator has not included a copy of the original NtK in their evidence pack. This omission is damning. Without it, they cannot demonstrate compliance with the requirements of PoFA, including the actual date of issue and the statutory wording. It is difficult to view this failure as anything other than a deliberate attempt to suppress the most important evidence in this appeal.

Worse still, the operator tries to distract the assessor by focusing on the date they received the DVLA data (23rd April) – a date which is completely irrelevant to the PoFA compliance test. This is not simply a misunderstanding; it appears to be a conscious attempt to mislead the assessor into thinking they complied with PoFA, when the opposite is true.

By their own admission, the NtK was issued on 28th April – five days after they say they obtained my data. That delay is entirely their responsibility and shows they failed to act with reasonable diligence if they were aiming to meet the PoFA deadline. The fact they then try to blame the DVLA timing shows they are not being honest or transparent.

To be clear:

– The NtK was issued on 28 April 2025
– It is deemed given on 30 April 2025
– That is 16 days after the alleged parking event on 14 April 2025
– That breaches PoFA 9(4) and 9(6)
– The operator has not provided the NtK to allow the assessor to verify anything
– The operator has not identified the driver
– Therefore, keeper liability cannot apply

The operator’s failure to meet the statutory deadlines, their omission of the most crucial document, and their blatant attempt to mislead the assessor with irrelevant dates all point to one conclusion: the appeal must be allowed.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
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Re: Smart Parking Notice
« Reply #27 on: »
Hi, sorry I'm out right now, but Smart Parking have included the original NtK with their evidence. Which has the dates on. Which in turn gives us all we need, I believe?

That's why I highlighted them in my reply and referred to the 'operator's documents'. Accept that might not be clear here, sorry.

It's funny about the differing dates. I'm tempted to do the FOI request just to see what actually happened.

I'll review again when I get home, but thanks all for your input. How does this site get supported? It and you guys are gold dust!


Re: Smart Parking Notice
« Reply #28 on: »
It does, but it's always sensible to spell it out explicitly. The more you hand to the assessor on a plate, the less room there is for them to make a daft decision.

(on your point about FOI, it would be a Subject Access Request to the DVLA, not an FOI)

Quote
How does this site get supported? 
It runs on free software, which keeps costs down somewhat. The set up and domain costs etc. were generously paid for by our admin Southpaw82 I believe.

Re: Smart Parking Notice
« Reply #29 on: »
Why did you remove the copies of the PCN from their evidence pack that you provided?

Obviously you need to amend the information I told you to copy and paste into the POPLA response webform.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain