Author Topic: Saba penalty by post - Failing to obtain a valid ticket - Barnt Green Train Station  (Read 630 times)

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Thanks in advance for any advice, have done a search on Saba company around train stations so I have a little idea of what's going on but a bit of help would be appreciated.

The driver remembers using the app to pay, but no money has been taken, so it must be driver error, perhaps by not approving a card payment authorisation on their banking app.   

I am the registered keeper. 

The charge seems excessive for a car park that costs £3.50 a day, plus this arrived in the post on 22nd October, the same day I went away for a few days so have had no time until now.  The notice says 11th October - this seems to already put us into the full £100 territory. 






I have attached the penalty notice, I can get photos of signs on Wednesday. 

https://maps.app.goo.gl/xyFepan1KpjqfHoR9. - Google Streetview appears to pre-date this parking company and their machines.

Have I missed anything else that will be helpful?

« Last Edit: October 28, 2024, 07:06:48 pm by doozergirl »

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If I remember correctly, they cannot charge a penalty like this under bye-laws.Have a look down here for similar cases. I've had a few similar PCNs at my local station, never paid one, not been taken to magistrates court either.

Delaying tactics work very well under byelaws, they have 6 months in which to take the case to magistrates.

Have a scroll down to find more info on station parking. The parking company try to mix POFA private parking regulations with byelaws. Try this case, it outlines what I have said about mixing private and railway parking. They can only persue the driver,not the registered keeper (RK), only refer to "the driver" as "the driver. Not "I parked".no, "the driver parked". No doubt someone else will be along to offer better advice.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2024, 11:47:34 pm by roythebus »
Bus driving since 1973. My advice, if you have a PSV licence, destroy it when you get to 65 or you'll be forever in demand.

It is a contractual offer that if you pay SABA, they will not try and prosecute you for a criminal offence in the magistrates court. It is 100% not a real penalty notice. It is a fraudulent attempt to extort money from you using terminology that is unlawful.

I already have an investigative journalist from a major broadsheet on the case. SABA will not and cannot take you to the magistrates court as their scam would be revealed in all its glory.

If this were a real Penalty Notice, they would be obliged to reveal who heir “client” is and any penalty paid would have to go to the “client”, usually a Train Operating Company (TOC) who are the “authority” who are authorised to prosecute under the bylaws.

Note that there is no mention of whose “authority” SABA are issuing the Penalty Notice. Also, any money being paid to settle the penalty is going into their own account, not the authorities. Any failure to pay or dispute a penalty issued under an authority can only be disputed in the magistrates court and if lest, the court could impose fines on top of any penalty which would go to the public purse, not SABA.

If SABA wanted to try and gain revenue for breaches of the terms of parking, they can only do so under civil contract law and on,y against the driver. They could easily do this by issuing a Parking Charge Notice (PCN), not a Penalty Notice (PN). They have issued a fake PN and used unlawful language such as “penalty”, “fine”, “offence”, “ criminal” and so on.

For now, I would suggest the following as an initial appeal to SABA:

Quote
Response to Fake Penalty Notice (Ref: [Insert PN reference number])

Dear Sirs,

I write as the registered keeper of the vehicle with registration number [Insert Registration Number] to address the so-called "Penalty Notice" issued on [Insert Date]. It is evident that this notice is nothing more than an “offered contract” dressed up as a Penalty Notice (PN), and it holds no legal weight.

The PN does not state under whose authority SABA is acting in intending to prosecute the driver for an alleged criminal offence in the magistrates' court. Without a clear indication of this authority, the notice appears to be both invalid and fraudulent.

Your attempt to present this matter as a criminal offence under railway bylaws is misleading and deceptive. If you truly believe you have standing in this matter, I challenge you to issue a summons where the alleged “penalty” can be contested in the magistrates' court. However, it is clear that this is not a criminal matter but a civil dispute. In criminal cases, the burden of proof is beyond reasonable doubt, a standard which I doubt you could meet. In contrast, civil cases are decided on the balance of probabilities, which is a much lower standard.

In any event, this is clearly not a criminal case, and your notice is nothing more than an unlawful attempt to dress up a contractual dispute as something more intimidating. As this is a civil matter, there is no threat of any “fine” or “penalty”.

As this parking area is under statutory control (railway bylaws), the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) does not apply, and therefore, there is no keeper liability. I have no legal obligation to identify the driver, and your notice is simply an unlawful attempt to intimidate.

If you are not prepared to proceed through the correct legal channels, I expect this fake PN to be cancelled immediately. I will not be intimidated by your unlawful attempt to extract money.

Yours faithfully,

[Your Full Name]
Registered Keeper
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Very well put.
Bus driving since 1973. My advice, if you have a PSV licence, destroy it when you get to 65 or you'll be forever in demand.

Thank you so much for such comprehensive replies. 

I shall do exactly as you say, b789.

@roythebus, thanks for the reassurance.  Glad to hear that they haven't succeeded. 
« Last Edit: October 29, 2024, 03:40:12 pm by doozergirl »

A reply. 

"Thank you for your appeal.

Please be advised, due to this being a Penalty Notice issued under Railway Byelaws the registered keeper remains liable for this and the driver is not pursued.

However, the driver or registered keeper can appeal regarding this.

Please note your appeal does not dispute the issuing of the notice, please outline the reasoning for your appeal within seven days."

Is there any point in replying, given that they are wrong? Or do I wait the 7 days and reply, reiterating my point?

I wouldn’t bother. They are not going to do anything except try and intimidate you with debt collector letters. You can safely ignore those. They are powerless to do anything.

If they want to take this further within the 6 month statute of limitations deadline, they would have to take out a private criminal prosecution in the magistrates court, which they cannot as they do not have the authority to do so. Even if they did, and they don’t, they wouldn’t receive any money as the penalty, if were a real one, would go to the Train Operating Company, not SABA.

It is all a massive fraud. Just keep us informed on any contact from SABA. We don’t need to se any debt collector letters but let us know when you receive the first one.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain