Author Topic: Private residential parking - POFA 2012 claimed but not compliant  (Read 1946 times)

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Re: Private residential parking - POFA 2012 claimed but not compliant
« Reply #15 on: »
Was the formal complaint sent to PPM? What was their response? Does the Keeper have any contemporaneous photos of that entrance sign either obscured by foliage or in the damaged condition as shown in other photos?

No response from PPM yet.

They have evidence of pictures as shown here along with an independent witness a neighbour who will certify that the signs have been in these manner prior to PCN having been issued.

https://imgur.com/a/A9sUkFg

Does this change anything? My previous post above also shows their initial appeal.

Re: Private residential parking - POFA 2012 claimed but not compliant
« Reply #16 on: »
There's your fatal mistake where you admitted being the driver:

Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Private residential parking - POFA 2012 claimed but not compliant
« Reply #17 on: »
There's your fatal mistake where you admitted being the driver:


This is a neighbour I am helping out. They just filled in the form generically and did not consult me till the form was completed.

Is there any recovery?

Re: Private residential parking - POFA 2012 claimed but not compliant
« Reply #18 on: »
It's not fatal but blows all the PoFA elements of no Keeper liability out the window. Until an N1SDT Claim Form arrives, not much else to do for now.

As far as I could see and I stand to be corrected, but there did not appear to be anything in the tenancy agreement that allows a third party to override the supremacy of contract.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Private residential parking - POFA 2012 claimed but not compliant
« Reply #19 on: »
Should the RK still write to BW LEGAL as per your suggestion above (querying charges).

There is a clause such as the below,

Quote
15 Head Lease 15.1 To comply with the obligations of the Head Lease.
This is the only thing about parking in the tenancy contract.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2025, 05:30:22 pm by FaeLLe »

Re: Private residential parking - POFA 2012 claimed but not compliant
« Reply #20 on: »
The following also listed as Landlords Obligations in the Tenancy Contract,

Quote
18.12 To comply with all the obligations imposed upon the Landlord by a Superior Landlord if the Property is held under a Superior Lease. 18.13 To take all reasonable steps to ensure that the Superior Landlord complies with the obligations of the Superior Lease.

Re: Private residential parking - POFA 2012 claimed but not compliant
« Reply #21 on: »
So, in other words, as the tenant, there is no obligation on you to display any permit and the parking company has no legal right to impose any conditions on your parking, as long as it is in your demised space.

Remind me... was this in your demised space?
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Private residential parking - POFA 2012 claimed but not compliant
« Reply #22 on: »
So, in other words, as the tenant, there is no obligation on you to display any permit and the parking company has no legal right to impose any conditions on your parking, as long as it is in your demised space.

Remind me... was this in your demised space?

There is no stipulated or designated parking space (nominated or assigned) as per the tenancy contract. They are entitled to apply for a permit but the landlord was not aware of any formalities.

They did have a permit from the council to park on Cadet Drive and due to lack of clear signage they did not know where the (alleged) private parking space started which requires a separate permit.

Re: Private residential parking - POFA 2012 claimed but not compliant
« Reply #23 on: »
...but the driver took the same entry and exit.

But which ones? Your plan marks entrances and exits identically.

Re: Private residential parking - POFA 2012 claimed but not compliant
« Reply #24 on: »
...but the driver took the same entry and exit.

But which ones? Your plan marks entrances and exits identically.

Sorry, revisiting the post I understand your concern and query now.

It is not a one way system. So literally entered and exited from the same place. To help illustrate I have provided the two links below.

So i would say they entered from here: https://w3w.co/leads.define.lost
Exited from here:
https://w3w.co/wounds.shower.boom
« Last Edit: March 31, 2025, 07:35:35 pm by FaeLLe »

Re: Private residential parking - POFA 2012 claimed but not compliant
« Reply #25 on: »
One final query from me. Could the appeal for this PCN simply be that the alleged site of contravention is not considered 'Relevant Land' because parking conditions are regulated by the Local Authority under a Traffic Management Order (TMO) and is classified as 'Controlled Parking Zone' for which the RK had a valid permit?



« Last Edit: March 31, 2025, 10:20:55 pm by FaeLLe »

Re: Private residential parking - POFA 2012 claimed but not compliant
« Reply #26 on: »
Were they parked on the public highway or private land? If private land, there's unlikely to be any mileage in that argument - TMOs do not regulate parking on private parking spaces that are not on the public highway.

Re: Private residential parking - POFA 2012 claimed but not compliant
« Reply #27 on: »
The council TMO map shows it is a permit parking area (green shaded area.ahove is permitnparking TS zone as per Southwark Council).

I can search for a Section 6C agreement to see if the council has taken over management of this area as well.

Is there any argument of TMO map showing it is controlled.parkingas per council which gives them the right to park their with a valid council permit?

Re: Private residential parking - POFA 2012 claimed but not compliant
« Reply #28 on: »
You're asking exactly the same question as your previous post. My answer is the same.

If the private parking company's signage was so poor that the driver was unaware they had left the public highway and so thought they were still subject to CPZ rules and therefore allowed to use their council permit, that's an argument you can run (basically a standard 'rubbish signage' argument), but if it is private land, you'd struggle to run the argument that it actually does forms part of the CPZ.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2025, 08:00:26 am by DWMB2 »
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Re: Private residential parking - POFA 2012 claimed but not compliant
« Reply #29 on: »
@b789 PPM Ltd responded with the below letter. Should we,

(1) correspond directly with BW LEGAL using the email template you previously provided (requoted below)

(2) Should we also write back to PPM Ltd and state that they have not addressed any of the points in our previous email to them and still expect a response; reiterating that they have broken their terms of agreement with PCM to issue a PCN and are additionally going to file a legal complaint to trading standards u else they cease and desist PCN enforcement?

Respond to BW Legal LoC with the following:

Quote
Dear Sirs,

Re: Letter of Claim dated 24th March 2025

I refer to your Letter of Claim.

I confirm that my address for service at this time is as follows, and I request that any outdated address be erased from your records to ensure compliance with data protection obligations:

[YOUR ADDRESS]

Please note that the alleged debt is disputed, and any court proceedings will be robustly defended.

I note that the sum claimed has been increased by an excessive and unjustifiable amount, which appears contrary to the principles established by the Government, who described such practices as “extorting money from motorists.” Please refrain from sending boilerplate responses or justifications regarding this issue.

Under the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims, I require specific answers to the following questions:

1. Does the additional £120 represent what you describe as a “Debt Recovery” fee? If so, is this figure net of or inclusive of VAT? If inclusive, I trust you will explain why I, as the alleged debtor, am being asked to cover your client’s VAT liability.

2. Regarding the principal sum of the alleged Parking Charge Notices (PCNs): Is this being claimed as damages for breach of contract, or will it be pleaded as consideration for a purported parking contract?

I would caution you against simply dismissing these questions with vague or boilerplate responses, as I am fully aware of the implications. By claiming that PCNs are exempt from VAT while simultaneously inflating the debt recovery element, your client – with your assistance – appears to be evading VAT obligations due to HMRC. Such mendacious conduct raises serious questions about the legality and ethics of your practices.

I strongly advise your client to cease and desist. Should this matter proceed to court, you can be assured that these issues will be brought to the court’s attention, alongside a robust defence and potentially a counterclaim for unreasonable conduct.

Yours faithfully,


[YOUR NAME]


Email from PPM Ltd along with the previous appeal tejection attached to the email is below.

« Last Edit: April 01, 2025, 07:17:23 pm by FaeLLe »