Author Topic: Private Parking Solutions - PCN received - Uxbridge industrial estate  (Read 5672 times)

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Re: Private Parking Solutions - PCN received - Uxbridge industrial estate
« Reply #45 on: »
Just received the re-issue of the original letter as the POPLA appeal failed, giving me 28 days to pay or name the driver.

However, I hadn't seen the prior posting and have now sent that to POPLA.

Re: Private Parking Solutions - PCN received - Uxbridge industrial estate
« Reply #46 on: »
Please explain clearly as you are not making any sense.

Just received the re-issue of the original letter as the POPLA appeal failed, giving me 28 days to pay or name the driver.

However, I hadn't seen the prior posting and have now sent that to POPLA.

I understand that you had not sent the formal complaint I advised you to send over a month ago. However, what on earth do you mean by:

"Just received the re-issue of the original letter as the POPLA appeal failed, giving me 28 days to pay or name the driver."

If you are unable to explain it properly, please show us what you received.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Private Parking Solutions - PCN received - Uxbridge industrial estate
« Reply #47 on: »
The parking company sent me something closely resembling the original parking charge letter, because (I assume) the POPLA appeal failed. It gives me 28 days to pay or name the driver.

Re: Private Parking Solutions - PCN received - Uxbridge industrial estate
« Reply #48 on: »
Don't presume anything. Show us the notice you received. The wording on it has to be very specific and without seeing it and your simple description is not enough for us to provide an answer.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Private Parking Solutions - PCN received - Uxbridge industrial estate
« Reply #49 on: »



Re: Private Parking Solutions - PCN received - Uxbridge industrial estate
« Reply #50 on: »
Hi <tango33>

Thank you for your contact.

As POPLA has now reached its final decision our involvement in your appeal ends. There is no further appeals process available to either party.

If your appeal has been unsuccessful; and you wish to continue to dispute the issue of the parking charge notice, there may still be options available however POPLA is not able to be involved.

For confidential and impartial advice, you may wish to contact Citizen’s Advice Bureau on 0800 144 8848 or 0800 702 2020 if you live in Wales or 0800 028 1456 if you live in Scotland.

Kind Regards,

Anthony
POPLA Assessor

Re: Private Parking Solutions - PCN received - Uxbridge industrial estate
« Reply #51 on: »
Is there anything further I can do? (before the stage of it reaching court?)

I am concerned that if I name the driver they are not going to be able to either trace them or get a response from them. What happens in that situation, do they come back after me for the charge?

Re: Private Parking Solutions - PCN received - Uxbridge industrial estate
« Reply #52 on: »
You can identify the driver at any point up to the issue of a claim. However, in order to do so, you must provide a valid name and a serviceable address. What do you Ean by being able to "trace" the driver?

If you don't follow the advice given then don't expect much more. You were advised to send the formal complaint to POPLA. You didn't.

As you have been advised, a POPLA decision is not binding on you. All you can do now is either identify the driver and proverbially throw them under the bus or just ignore everything until if/when they send a Letter of Claim (LoC). You can safely ignore all debt recovery letters. They are powerless except to try and make the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree pay up out of ignorance and fear.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Private Parking Solutions - PCN received - Uxbridge industrial estate
« Reply #53 on: »
You can identify the driver at any point up to the issue of a claim. However, in order to do so, you must provide a valid name and a serviceable address. What do you Ean by being able to "trace" the driver?
I mean, what if they get no response from the named driver? What if they are from another country and they ignore any correspondence?

If you don't follow the advice given then don't expect much more. You were advised to send the formal complaint to POPLA. You didn't.
I have sent the formal complaint to POPLA and the reply I received is above.

As you have been advised, a POPLA decision is not binding on you. All you can do now is either identify the driver and proverbially throw them under the bus or just ignore everything until if/when they send a Letter of Claim (LoC). You can safely ignore all debt recovery letters. They are powerless except to try and make the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree pay up out of ignorance and fear.
At what point does their claim for money increase? And what of those increases might I be legally obliged to pay?

Sorry for the intermittant responses, I spend a lot of time travelling out of the country.

Re: Private Parking Solutions - PCN received - Uxbridge industrial estate
« Reply #54 on: »
As long as you provide a valid name and address for the driver, even if it is in a foreign country, you have transferred liability. However, that does not mean that they will not try and come back to you. They can try but you will have fulfilled your obligation under PoFA to transfer liability. They would have a hard time convincing a judge that they had a case.

There is already a case on here where they have been chasing the Keeper even though it was the Keepers brother who was driving. The Keepers brother lives in the US.

National Parking Contol ignores Transfer of liability up to court now

You should tell the driver to admit to driving the vehicle. There is nothing they can do about it though.

Once POPLA is over, they will start sending debt recovery letter with a fae £70 added. All debt recovery letter cn be safely ignored. They are powerless.

If it goes to a claim, then they will add their claim fee (£35) and fixed solicitor costs (£50) and maybe a bit of statutory interest. For a single PSN you are looking at around £260. However, as I have mentioned very few claims actually go all the way to a hearing with most being stuck out or discontinued. Of the few that go all the way to a hearing, most win.

Even the very few that lose, no judge will allow the fake £70 or the interest. So, in the absolute worst case scenario, you would be risking around £200. There is absolutely no risk of a CCJ even if you were to lose as long as it is paid within 30 days of judgment. There is no record of this on your credit history. It is completely expunged.

So, are you prepared to fight this all the way or am I wasting my time providing further advice?
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Private Parking Solutions - PCN received - Uxbridge industrial estate
« Reply #55 on: »
Regarding the POPLA response to the formal complaint, I suggest you respond as follows:

Quote
Subject: Request for Senior-Level Review of Unaddressed Formal Complaint – [Your POPLA Case Ref]

Dear POPLA,

Thank you for your recent reply. However, it is wholly unsatisfactory in the context of the formal complaint I submitted.

To be clear, I am not asking for the appeal decision to be revisited. I am requesting a substantive response to the serious procedural and legal concerns I raised regarding:

• The assessor’s fundamental misunderstanding of contract law, especially concerning prohibitive signage;
• The incorrect reliance on ParkingEye v Beavis in a context where it does not apply;
• The failure to properly assess keeper liability under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA);
• The uncritical acceptance of questionable landowner authority evidence;
• POPLA's apparent lack of oversight or accountability where assessors apply legal principles incorrectly.

Your reply simply restated that POPLA does not revisit appeals. That is not the issue at hand. A formal complaint about the competence and training of POPLA’s adjudicators, and the broader implications of flawed legal reasoning, should not be brushed aside with a generic response.

I now ask that this complaint be escalated to a Senior Manager or the Head of POPLA, and that a considered response is issued that addresses each of the points raised in my original complaint.

If POPLA declines to respond substantively to this complaint, I will have no choice but to raise these concerns with the British Parking Association, the Chartered Trading Standards Institute (which oversees ADR bodies), and my MP, given the wider consumer protection implications.

Yours sincerely,

[Your full name]

If they still refuse to respond substantively to the formal complaint, we can then follow up with a complaint to the CTSI and your MP. I'd also send a complaint to the BPA but purely for paper trail purposes as I have zero faith in the BPA actually doing anything of substance.

Let up know the response from POPLA to the follow up letter above.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Private Parking Solutions - PCN received - Uxbridge industrial estate
« Reply #56 on: »
Initial holding/acknowledge response...

Quote from: popla
Hi <tango33>,

Thank you for your contact.

We are sorry that you are unhappy with our service and would like to reassure you that we take all complaints seriously.

The information has been escalated to our complaints team and the details will be reviewed.

You should receive a response within 21 days depending on the complexity of the information provided.

Kind Regards,

Lucy

POPLA

Re: Private Parking Solutions - PCN received - Uxbridge industrial estate
« Reply #57 on: »
Looks like success...

Quote
Dear <tango33>

Thank you for your recent communication, I am sorry that you have been unhappy with our service. I can see that your concerns have not been fully addressed within our previous responses and understand why you have felt the need to escalate further.

You have raised concerns that the parking signs only list actions not permitted and not an offer to park with a corresponding charge if violated. You state that the wording implies that the £100 is a consequence of breaking the rules and not a fee for a parking service.

The signage describes the site as a car park, and the contract between the landowner and parking operator says parking is permitted within marked bays for permit holders. This suggests parking is permitted is designated areas but not in general. However, the signs in the car park do not set out the terms allowing parking, only the parking prohibitions.

From the evidence available, I am not satisfied that the operator rebutted your appeal reason that there was no contract on offer. I would also agree that on this occasion, the comparison with Beavis Vs ParkingEye was not appropriate. Neither the terms nor reference to the amount is relevant to the grounds of appeal.

I agree that we made the wrong decision on this appeal and feedback will be provided both to the individual involved and the wider team.

We consistently review the quality of the decision making through regular quality assessments completed by our most experienced assessors and Coaches. We use the trends and insights from both our assessment and customer feedback to work on continuously improving our knowledge, systems and processes.

I sincerely apologise once again for the error in judgement on this occasion.

I trust that my response answers your concerns and thank you for taking the time to raise your concerns. Your feedback is vital to improving our service.

Kind regards


Helen

Leader
flexibleresolutionservices.co.uk

Re: Private Parking Solutions - PCN received - Uxbridge industrial estate
« Reply #58 on: »
Keep that as evidence. This is a rare and significant concession from POPLA, and you are right to consider it a notable success. This at least confirms:

1. Acknowledgement of Error:

I agree that we made the wrong decision on this appeal…

This is a direct admission that the original appeal decision was legally and procedurally flawed.

2. Agreement on Contract Law Principles:

I am not satisfied that the operator rebutted your appeal reason that there was no contract on offer.”

POPLA now accepts that no offer = no contract, and therefore the premise of the original decision (that a contract was formed by the driver's conduct) was unsound.

3. Inappropriate Reliance on Beavis:

I would also agree that… the comparison with Beavis Vs ParkingEye was not appropriate.”

This confirms your argument that Beavis cannot be used to justify charges arising from purely prohibitory signage.

4. Internal Feedback and Training:

Feedback will be provided… to the individual and the wider team.

While not an assurance of systemic change, this is at least a positive indication that the complaint may contribute to internal reforms.

This is a formal written statement that the appeal outcome was incorrect. While POPLA won’t overturn the decision, this gives you a powerful tool if the matter ever escalates to a court claim. A judge would be interested to know that the official ADR provider has conceded the case was wrongly decided.

If PPS or their debt collectors continue to pursue the matter, you can reference this POPLA response as clear evidence that no contract was formed, and the appeal rejection was flawed. This undermines any assertion that the charge was properly reviewed and upheld.

Send a Follow-Up to the Chartered Trading Standards Institute (CTSI), explaining that POPLA ultimately agreed with your complaint, but only after escalation and a refusal to properly engage at first instance. This still supports a regulatory concern about POPLA’s complaint handling and the quality control of assessors.

Before you can make formal complaint to the BPA, you have to exhaust the formal complaint process with PPS.

Quote
Subject: Formal Complaint – Request for Cancellation Following POPLA Concession

PCN Reference: [Insert PCN Reference]
POPLA Reference: [Insert POPLA Reference]
Vehicle Registration: [Insert VRM]

Dear Sirs,

I am writing to raise a formal complaint regarding the above parking charge notice, issued by Private Parking Solutions Ltd.

Following my appeal to POPLA, I received a direct response from a senior assessor (Helen, Leader at Flexible Resolution Services) confirming that the appeal decision was incorrect, and that:

1. Acknowledgement of Error:

I agree that we made the wrong decision on this appeal…

This is a direct admission that the original appeal decision was legally and procedurally flawed.

2. Agreement on Contract Law Principles:

I am not satisfied that the operator rebutted your appeal reason that there was no contract on offer.”

POPLA now accepts that no offer = no contract, and therefore the premise of the original decision (that a contract was formed by the driver's conduct) was unsound.

3. Inappropriate Reliance on Beavis:

I would also agree that… the comparison with Beavis Vs ParkingEye was not appropriate.”

This confirms that Beavis cannot be used to justify charges arising from purely prohibitory signage.

4. Internal Feedback and Training:

Feedback will be provided… to the individual and the wider team.

This is a clear and unambiguous concession that:

• The signage at the site was prohibitory, not contractual;
• There was no valid contract formed between the operator and the motorist;
• he Parking Charge Notice should not have been upheld.

Given that the ADR body has now accepted that the charge has no contractual basis, it would be wholly unreasonable — and arguably in breach of the BPA Code of Practice and the Private Parking Single Code of Practice — to continue enforcement.

I therefore request:

• That this PCN be immediately cancelled, and
• That you provide written confirmation that all recovery action has ceased, including from any third-party debt recovery agents.

Please treat this as a formal complaint under your internal complaints policy. Should I not receive a satisfactory response within 14 days, I will escalate the matter to the BPA’s AOS Compliance Team and include the POPLA concession as part of that complaint.

Yours faithfully,

[Your Full Name]
[Postal Address]
[Email Address]
[Date]

You also should send the following formal letter of complaint to the Chartered Trading Standards Institute (CTSI), updated to reflect POPLA’s admission of error, your concern over systemic issues, and the need for proper regulatory oversight of ADR entities like POPLA.

Send the following to ccab@tsi.org.uk and CC in yourself:

Quote
Subject: Formal Complaint – POPLA’s Failure to Uphold ADR Standards (POPLA Ref: [Insert])

Dear CTSI ADR Monitoring Team,

I am writing to raise a formal complaint about POPLA (Parking on Private Land Appeals), which is approved as an ADR provider under the Alternative Dispute Resolution for Consumer Disputes (Competent Authorities and Information) Regulations 2015.

This complaint concerns both how POPLA handled my appeal and wider issues with their internal procedures and decision-making standards.

I appealed a Parking Charge Notice issued by Private Parking Solutions Ltd (PPS). My appeal to POPLA explained that the signage at the site was prohibitory in nature and did not set out any contractual terms. I argued that no contract was offered and that therefore the charge had no legal basis. I also pointed out that the operator’s evidence failed to rebut this, and that ParkingEye v Beavis did not apply to such a situation.

My appeal was rejected by a POPLA assessor who incorrectly concluded that a contract was formed and relied on Beavis, despite the clear differences in context. I later submitted a formal complaint to POPLA.

After escalation, I received a response from a senior assessor, Helen (Leader at Flexible Resolution Services), who acknowledged that:

• The operator had not rebutted my argument that there was no contract on offer
• The comparison with Beavis was not appropriate
• The decision was wrong and should not have been made

Despite this admission, POPLA has no system to correct the error, and the flawed decision remains on record. The only reason I received a proper response was because I escalated the complaint beyond the normal process, after POPLA initially dismissed it with a generic reply.

I believe POPLA is not complying with the following parts of the ADR Regulations:

• Article 7(1): Their assessors clearly lack the legal knowledge and competence to handle disputes involving contract law or statutory compliance under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.
• Article 9(2): The original appeal decision was not fair or reasoned. It ignored the core argument and applied a legal precedent incorrectly.
• Article 11: The complaints process is not effective. My first complaint was dismissed without any proper consideration. POPLA only admitted the error after escalation, and still offered no redress.

This raises serious concerns about POPLA’s ability to act as a fair and competent ADR body. Consumers rely on their decisions, and when those decisions are wrong, POPLA has no way to correct them. This encourages parking operators to continue enforcement on a flawed legal basis.

I ask that CTSI investigate whether POPLA is meeting its obligations and consider requiring improvements in their complaints process, assessor training, and accountability.

I attach the following documents to support this complaint:

• The original POPLA appeal and decision
• My formal complaint to POPLA
• POPLA’s concession that the decision was incorrect

Thank you for your time and I look forward to your response.

Yours faithfully,

[Your full name]
[Your address]
[Your email]
[Date]
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Private Parking Solutions - PCN received - Uxbridge industrial estate
« Reply #59 on: »
Request for cancellation - Sent
TSI complaint - Sent
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