Hello,
im looking for advice on my situation.
a PCN to registered Keeper (not the driver) was received for staying in a permit holder car park (private parking for local tenants).
The driver entered the car park at a request from a tenant (with no permit) to help fix their bike.
they were there 25 minutes and didnt see the signage (though there is a lot of it!)
end result one PCN for £100 from ParkingEye.
i can upload the PCN and photos of the signage if needed and anything else you think i need?
one odd thing is that the area is/was obviously also covered by another parking company, whose signs are also still on display.
i dont know if there's much i can do except pay - but as i'm loathe to give these pirates any cash, i thought id ask on here first!
many thanks
Ruddles
Why would you just pay a speculative invoice from an unregulated private parking firm? Do you know whether you are liable as the Keeper? I have yet to see a single PE Notice to Keeper (NtK) that fully complies with PoFA 2012.
For now, you need to show us the NtK and another photos you have.
READ THIS FIRST - Private Parking Charges Forum guide
Hi thanks for the reply.
sorry for not getting back till now (had a family funeral other end of country).
on uploading docs - can i ask what i need to redact, names car details etc?
i will look into imgur now to get ready. i need to get on as the 14th day from notice is 28th although this didnt hit our doormat till 19th!
will post pcn front & rear and couple of pics of signs...
The 'Read This First' guide linked to above advises on what details ought to be redacted.
The link in Reply #1 leads to
3. Post the notice(s) you have received – as well as providing important context, the notices may contain/omit details that can be used to help you successfully fight the charge. Upload photos of any and all notices you have received from the parking company. You should show us all pages of the notice(s), remove personal details (name/address, PCN reference number, Vehicle Registration Mark), but show us all dates and times. Details that you think are trivial could help you win, so don’t leave anything out.
Please do not bump your thread. This is a busy forum where volunteers provide advice for free. Sometimes you will have to wait for advice - the urgency you now face is due to us having to wait 6 days to see the Notice to Keeper, although I do appreciate the unfortunate circumstances that led to this, and I'm sorry for your loss.
There are a couple of arguments you can advance:
Forbidding Signage:
The signage does not make an offer to non-permit holders to park. Instead, it prohibits those without a permit from parking. Without this, there can be no contract formed, and thus no money owed. Neither ParkingEye nor POPLA will be likely to uphold an appeal on this basis, but it's an argument that could be advanced in court.
PoFA Compliance:
There is an argument that ParkingEye's notice does not quite comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act, insofar as it does not invite the keeper to pay, as required by 9(2)(e) of the Act. Again, neither ParkingEye nor POPLA will be likely to uphold an appeal on this basis. To my knowledge it's not an argument that has yet been tried in court, as a good portion of the claims we see issued are discontinued for one reason or another before they reach a hearing.
Conflicting Signage:
You have shown us that the car park bears signage both for ParkingEye and FlashPark. You obviously cannot enter simultaneous contracts with two different firms for the same parking 'service', but you could seek to argue that the presence of conflicting signage makes the charge unenforceable, as it is not clear to a motorist which company they are entering into a contract with. It would be useful to get some additional photos of the signage at the site showing its location etc. to reinforce this point.
many thanks for your reply and apologies for the bump - my imgur links didnt show up on my pc so i thought they may not have posted correctly. showing up fine now. and albeit my fault on the timing, I'm getting towards panic mode
so the options i have dont seem very solid - "coulds and maybes".
i think in this instance i will just pay up at £60, much as i hate giving my money to these people! the driver did stop there for 25 mins after all, so fair cop i guess. The pain may be slightly softened by the tenant offering to pay the fine for the help with their bike (i wont take it but reminds me of the good in humanity as opposed to parking companies).
thanks very much for taking the time to respond and offer advice, its much appreciated.
...and a new site for me to read, to hear of the great cases of people successfully defending themselves.
regards
so the options i have dont seem very solid - "coulds and maybes".
That is the nature of the beast. Whilst we are in the business of helping people fight their parking charges, we are not in the business of predicting the future. Some cases are 'slam dunk' wins, a very small number of cases are near-certain losses, the majority fall somewhere in between, and where court is involved we can never provide a guarantee, as County Court cases do not set precedent, so judges sometimes disagree with one another on broadly similar points.
The legal basis behind the 'Forbidding Signage' argument is fairly solid, and if there are two companies with signage in the same car park, that would also seem like a pretty strong ground upon which to challenge. Ultimately, it's your money and time at stake, so your call.