Author Topic: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock  (Read 1789 times)

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Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
« Reply #30 on: »
Noted - thanks for the heads up!

I seriously wish I had just 1% of the knowledge and know how of all of you that help everyone. I would no doubt find this much easier to work out  :)



Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
« Reply #31 on: »
Ok, so this is my draft for POPLA...

https://1drv.ms/w/c/daf5930527c9e82a/Ef9Yn3nUuGhEvZyg_QRRHhEBX-y1UlJFBfhC3ukFvRlxGQ?e=aItlnE

I'd really appreciate any feedback on improvements/additions or retractions should what I've written sound like complete waffle...

I'm not the best on using modern technology so I'm not sure about the link above so I have also saved the draft as a pdf (this I do know how to do) and attached it below

Many thanks over and over and over again!!



[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
« Reply #32 on: »
I'd suggest something more along these lines but you can edit the reference to the TfL rules is there is something more specific that applies to point #4:

Quote
1. Land Likely Not “Relevant Land” Under PoFA – No Keeper Liability

The Notice to Keeper was issued by post, and the operator seeks to rely on the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4) to pursue the Keeper. However, the location — Royal Victoria Dock, 1 Western Gateway, London, E16 1XL — raises serious doubt as to whether the land qualifies as “relevant land.”

There are multiple indicators that the area is under statutory control, and therefore excluded under Paragraph 3 of PoFA:

• Double red lines are present, which usually fall under Transport for London regulation.
• location is part of the Royal Docks area, potentially falling under the Port of London Authority (PLA) jurisdiction.
• The surrounding roads may be adopted highway or under Newham Council traffic regulation orders.

If the area is part of the public highway or under control of a statutory traffic authority (e.g. TfL, the local authority, or PLA), it is not relevant land under PoFA. The operator has provided no evidence to show otherwise. Therefore, they cannot pursue the Keeper, and the PCN must be cancelled unless the operator can definitively prove that PoFA applies.

2. The Notice to Keeper is not PoFA 2012 compliant

A single timestamped observation of a stationary vehicle lasting less than the minimum consideration period of 5 minutes is not a "period of parking." Even if multiple photos show the same timestamp or a short sequence, that still does not constitute a proper "period". The courts have made it clear that in order to be able to comply with paragraph 9(2)(a) of PoFA, there must be evidence of actual parking activity over a meaningful interval. This was confirmed in Brennan v Premier Parking Solutions (2023) [H6DP632H], where the judge ruled that a single timestamp or momentary observation is not sufficient.

3. Contradictory Road Markings – Red Route vs. Drop-Off Bay

The ground markings are self-contradictory:

• A solid double red line runs along the kerb, which signifies no stopping at any time.
• Directly alongside that is a white dashed bay marked “TAXI DROP OFF POINT ONLY”.

This is nonsensical. The motorist is both told they cannot stop at all and must stop (to drop off). These two messages cannot co-exist lawfully or logically.

Such inconsistency creates legal ambiguity and is a breach of consumer protection law — specifically, the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Sch. 2, para 10 — which prohibits enforcement based on unclear or ambiguous terms. No driver can be expected to comply with contradictory markings, and no fair contract can arise in such a situation.

4. Signage is 100% Prohibitory – No Contract Can Be Formed

The only visible sign states:

NO PARKING AT ANY TIME... no stopping... no waiting... no loading/unloading...”

This is a prohibitory sign. It offers no contractual alternative, no invitation to park, and no consideration. It is not capable of forming a contract.

In private parking enforcement, the signage must communicate clear terms and offer a driver the opportunity to accept them. Here, the sign communicates only forbiddance, not offer. That makes any claim of contractual liability untenable.

5. Driver Was a TfL-Licensed PHV Lawfully Dropping Off in a Designated Bay

The vehicle was a TfL-licensed Private Hire Vehicle (PHV), displaying a valid TfL licence disc. The driver is also registered with TfL and was actively working at the time.

They dropped off a passenger and received another fare nearby at 13:04. This short stop was lawful and standard for PHV operation.

The bay is explicitly marked “TAXI DROP OFF POINT ONLY”. There is nothing on the sign or road to prohibit PHVs from stopping. In practice, across London, PHVs use taxi drop-off points routinely, unless expressly restricted.

TfL’s official guidance confirms this:

“Private hire vehicles can pick up and drop off passengers anywhere that this is permitted... but must not wait for passengers.”

(https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/taxis-and-private-hire/parking-information)

The driver complied with this. They did not park or wait — they dropped off a fare in a marked drop-off bay and left. This was a lawful action, and enforcement in this context is without justification.

6. Jopson v Homeguard – Set-Down is Not Parking

In Jopson v Homeguard Services Ltd (2016) [B9QZ4H3R], it was held that:

“Stopping briefly to allow a passenger to board or alight is not ‘parking’.”

This case is directly on point. The driver remained in the vehicle with the engine running. There was no parking, no abandonment of the vehicle, no waiting. The action was lawful, necessary, and reasonable. No contravention occurred.

7. Minimum Consideration Period Not Breached

Photographic evidence shows that:

• First photo was taken at 13:04:16
• Final photo at 13:06:51
• Total time observed: 2 minutes 35 seconds

Section 5.1 of the Private Parking Single Code of Practice (Feb 2025) states:

“A minimum 5-minute consideration period must be given to allow a driver to read the terms and conditions on signage before entering into a contract.”

Even if a contract could have been formed (it couldn't — see points 2 & 3), the operator has not shown that the driver remained on site for longer than the minimum 5 minutes required to be able to form a contract by condut. The burden of proof lies with them.

8. Keeper Not Liable – Driver Not Identified

Since this land is not relevant under PoFA, the Keeper cannot be held liable.

Furthermore, the driver has not been identified, and there is no legal presumption that the Keeper was the driver. In VCS v Edward (2023), HHJ Gargan stated:

“Simply because somebody is the registered keeper does not mean, on balance of probability, they were driving...”

The operator has provided no evidence of who was driving. They cannot hold the Keeper liable and cannot prove driver liability either.

Conclusion

• The land is almost certainly under statutory control — PoFA does not apply.
• The NtK is not fully compliant with all the requirements of PoFA.
• Road markings contradict each other — enforcement is impossible.
• Signage is entirely prohibitory — no contract can arise.
• The driver was a TfL-licensed PHV dropping off and picking up in a marked bay — a lawful action.
• The brief stop is not “parking” (Jopson).
• The 5-minute consideration period was not exceeded so no evidence of contract formation.
• No driver has been identified — Keeper liability fails.

This PCN is invalid on multiple grounds. I request that POPLA uphold this appeal and instruct the operator to cancel it.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
« Reply #33 on: »
Thanks b789 - what you have quoted in your last post is what was sent to POPLA in my initial appeal. So my last post is what my response back to the evidence that PPS have submitted to my appeal to POPLA which I have 7 days (from June 11th) to respond to. So forgive me for my confusion but do I send this again to POPLA as my response to what PPS have written which was....

"Dear Assessor,

According to the documents provided by the landowner and uploaded for review, the land in question is private land.
The contract that we are seeking payment on has arisen from a breach of the notified terms and conditions of parking stated on the signs that the landowner has requested us to erect and permitted to remain erected at this location. The evidence demonstrates that the signage is clearly located to make motorists aware of the terms and conditions, and the potential consequences of non-adherence to the terms have been made fully available. A prominent entrance sign, facing the oncoming traffic, makes clear that parking on red routes is not allowed (NO PARKING ON RED ROUTE) and refers users to further signs within the site. The signage states “Red Route. No parking at any time. This private land is controlled by Wardens. If you fail to comply with any of the terms and conditions stated below you agree to pay a £100 Parking Charge Notice. No parking/waiting/loading/unloading on red routes or pedestrian footpaths. By parking on this private land you agree to comply with these terms and conditions (the parking contract) and accept liability to pay the fee for unauthorised parking." Additionally, there are double red lines on the road, indicating that stopping, parking, loading/unloading or boarding and alighting from a vehicle is prohibited.  While red routes are commonly associated with public roads managed by Transport for London (TfL), the rules regarding parking restrictions on red routes also apply when such markings and signage are present on private land. In the present case, an exception is provided for taxis, which are known for their ability to be hailed on the street without pre-booking. These taxis are licensed by local councils or relevant authorities and must adhere to specific standards. London's traditional black cabs, although now available in other colours, are a prime example of this type of taxi.
Private Hire Vehicles (PHVs), sometimes called "minicabs," must be booked in advance and cannot use taxi ranks. According to Transport for London (TfL) regulations, PHVs are not permitted to stop or park on taxi ranks at any time, even to pick up or drop off passengers. While taxis may be granted certain exemptions on private land or public roads, any exceptions for taxis do not extend to PHVs. PHV drivers need to be aware of these distinctions to ensure compliance with parking restrictions and avoid parking charges.
In the present case, the driver parked on a taxi rank marked with double red lines, meaning that any other vehicle except a taxi is not permitted to park, wait or load/unload in the area; the driver cannot benefit from the 5-minute consideration, as it does not apply in strictly no-parking areas. By choosing to ignore the terms and remain on red route, the driver contravened the parking contract and became liable for a parking charge.
It is important to note that the operator does not have to issue a notice directly to the driver of the vehicle, as it can hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. The evidence shows that the keeper was invited to identify the driver, but does not indicate that they provided us with the relevant information to transfer liability to the driver. By failing to provide the driver's details, the appellant has assumed liability for this PCN."

or something along the lines of my previous post which was....

To the Assessor,

In rebut to the comments made by Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd, I would like to bring to your attention several points.

 

I have seen that the contract that Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd are relying on clearly states:

“Leaseholders: Please provide a document or contract where states your authority over the site to be managed by us”

As they have signed as the 'leaseholder', you must put Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd to strict poof that their client can show the document that gives them authority to authorise Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd to operate at the location. The copy of the agreement on its own does not evidence authority flowing from the landowner to the leaseholder to sign contracts in its own name.

 

Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd are relying on a contravention having occurred by the driver parking in a Taxi Rank marked with double red lines.

   “In the present case, the driver parked on a taxi rank marked with double red lines”

You must put Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd to strict proof of this evidence. The evidence supplied by Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd shows the Private Hire Vehicle in a ‘Taxi drop off point only’ marked bay with double red lines. A Taxi Rank is adjacent to where the driver set down see google map link

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Excel+London/@51.5086088,0.0251321,3a,75y,92.82h,57.36t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sqmUE7TGjEvvq4Zt2eSONNw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D32.63670126946809%26panoid%3DqmUE7TGjEvvq4Zt2eSONNw%26yaw%3D92.8199944194477!7i16384!8i8192!4m6!3m5!1s0x47d8a80ce609e50d:0xa0de5f705d7aec7!8m2!3d51.5084601!4d0.029846!16zL20vMDR4ZG0w?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDYwOS4xIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D 

 

Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd are relying on a contravention having occurred by a Private Hire Vehicle stopping on a red route.

   “Additionally, there are double red lines on the road, indicating that stopping, parking,    loading/unloading or boarding and alighting from a vehicle is prohibited.  While red    routes are commonly associated with public roads managed by Transport for London (TfL), the rules regarding parking restrictions on red routes also apply when such markings and signage are present on private land.” “In the present case, an exception    is provided for taxis”

You must put Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd to clarify this statement. It is not only London Black Taxi’s which are exempt from Transport for London parking restrictions. From December 17, 2007 Private Hire Vehicles in London were granted an exemption for red routes. To quote Section 6 of Transport for Londons Private Hire Vehicle Drivers Handbook V1 – Parking and Driving in London:

Stopping and waiting - Private hire drivers can stop to pick up or drop off passengers in many areas where there are rules in place to limit waiting or stopping. You need to remember that: • PHV drivers should not stop in any place where they might stop other    vehicles moving or be a danger to other road users. • PHV drivers must not stop on zig-zaglines (for example, by pedestrian crossings, outside schools) You should check what signage is displayed about stopping or waiting and make sure you understand and follow the instructions: • You can pick up or drop off passengers: - On single and double red    lines - On single and double yellow lines - In places where loading is not allowed (shown by markings on the kerb) - In most parking bays - In most bus lanes, although you should avoid    this if possible as it might delay or obstruct buses.

 

Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd are relying on the driver being parked in the Taxi Rank (contradictory evidence see point 1) as verification to waiver the 5 minute observation period.

   “the driver cannot benefit from the 5-minute consideration, as it does not apply in strictly no-parking areas.”

You must put to Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd to differentiate the regulations between a bay marked ‘Taxi Rank’ and a bay marked ‘Taxi Drop off Point Only’ and clarify the minimum 5 minute consideration period observation between the two. I have only read their definition of the regulations regarding a ‘Taxi Rank’ which are immaterial to this case – as the driver did not park in a Taxi Rank.

 

In conclusion, the driver did not “choose to ignore the terms and remain on red route” they were not governed by the terms of the red route through dispensation from Transport for London. The driver did not park in a Taxi Rank, rather they set down a pre booked fare in the appropriate ‘Taxi drop off point only’ bay and were not given the minimum 5-minute observation grace period. Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd have not definitively proven that PoFA applies and I urge you to cancel the Parking Charge Notice.

Please ease my confusion....thanks very much.

Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
« Reply #34 on: »
Sorry, I didn't read back far enough. Your response to the operators evidence can only be plain text. There is no formatting and I doubt that any POPLA assessor will follow any links you put in.

Simply go through each point in your appeal that the operator has not rebutted or answered and point this out to the assessor. Also, go through any points raised by the operator that were not in your appeal and rebut those.

There is a 10,000 character limit for the submission you put in but that should be more than enough. You can search for other POPLA appeals on here where I have provided a copy and paste text for the appellant to use for their rebuttal of the operators evidence. Find a few of those to see how they ave been argued.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
« Reply #35 on: »
Thank you, I have found one that you drafted for someone not too long ago for the same parking operator.

I've tweaked a few things here and there so this is now what I have drafted. I will be completely frank though...in regards to the first point - I've got no comprehension on that argument. Nor have I managed to get me head wrapped around the ins and outs of PoFA compliance.

The email I received from POPLA giving me the chance to respond withing 7 days to PPS lies was dated 11th June so I believe that today is the last day for me to reply, which I am keen to do. I can see by the many, many other posts that you are all very, very busy people but I would (and am) extremely grateful for the time you all put in to help and seek that assistance again today so I can finalise all of this and send it to POPLA.

Many thanks!


Dear Assessor,

In rebut to the evidence submitted by Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd, I would like to highlight various factual errors and bring to your attention several key points they have failed to address.

Firstly, I have seen that the contract that Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd are relying on clearly states:

“Leaseholders: Please provide a document or contract where states your authority over the site to be managed by us”

As they have signed as the 'leaseholder', you must put Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd to strict poof that their client can show the document that gives them authority to authorise Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd to operate at the location. The copy of the agreement on its own does not evidence authority flowing from the landowner to the leaseholder to sign contracts in its own name. There has been no evidence supplied to prove that the land is not under statutory control or part of highways and therefore can not be deemed relevant land under PoFA.

Secondly, Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd are relying on a contravention having occurred by the driver parking in a Taxi Rank marked with double red lines.

“In the present case, the driver parked on a taxi rank marked with double red lines”

You must put Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd to strict proof of this evidence as this is factually incorrect. The evidence supplied by Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd clearly shows the Private Hire Vehicle in a ‘Taxi drop off point only’ marked bay with double red lines. 

Thirdly, Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd are relying on a contravention having occurred by a Private Hire Vehicle stopping on a red route.

“Additionally, there are double red lines on the road, indicating that stopping, parking, loading/unloading or boarding and alighting from a vehicle is prohibited. While red routes are commonly associated with public roads managed by Transport for London (TfL), the rules regarding parking restrictions on red routes also apply when such markings and signage are present on private land.” “In the present case, an exception is provided for taxis”

You must put Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd to clarify this statement as it is factually incorrect. It is not only London Black Taxi’s which are exempt from Transport for London parking restrictions. From December 17, 2007 Private Hire Vehicles in London were granted an exemption for red routes. To quote Section 6 of Transport for London's Private Hire Vehicle Drivers Handbook V1 – Parking and Driving in London:

“Stopping and waiting - Private hire drivers can stop to pick up or drop off passengers in many areas where there are rules in place to limit waiting or stopping. 

You can pick up or drop off passengers: 

On single and double red lines 

On single and double yellow lines 

In places where loading is not allowed (shown by markings on the kerb) 

In most parking bays

In most bus lanes, although you should avoid this if possible as it might delay or obstruct buses.”

Fourthly, Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd are relying on the driver being parked in the Taxi Rank (contradictory evidence see point 1) as verification to waiver the 5 minute observation period.

“the driver cannot benefit from the 5-minute consideration, as it does not apply in strictly no-parking areas.”

You must put to Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd to differentiate the regulations between a bay marked ‘Taxi Rank’ and a bay marked ‘Taxi Drop off Point Only’ and clarify the minimum 5 minute consideration period observation between the two. I have only read their definition of the regulations regarding a ‘Taxi Rank’ which are immaterial to this case – as the driver did not park in a Taxi Rank.

Fithly, the signage is prohibitory. The sign clearly states, “No parking, waiting, loading or unloading on the roads and footpaths at any time.” This is not an invitation to park under certain conditions. It is a clear prohibition. A contract cannot be formed from prohibitive terms as I explained in my original appeal. The case of PCM v Bull (2016) confirmed that a prohibitory notice cannot form the basis of a contractual agreement. The operator claims a contract was formed, but this contradicts the content of the signage and applicable case law.

Sixthly, Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd failed to address point 5 in my appeal, “Set-down is Not Parking”. They are relying on their false statement that the Private Hire Vehicle had been parked in a Taxi Rank which is governed by strict rules. Their own photographic evidence contradicts this.

Seventhly, Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd claims that because I did not name the driver, I have assumed liability. This is incorrect. The burden is on the operator to comply with all of the conditions in Schedule 4 of PoFA in order to transfer liability to the keeper. As shown above, they have failed to do so. There is no presumption that the keeper is the driver. VCS v Edward (2023) confirmed that a keeper cannot be held liable simply because they were not able to name the driver.
 
To conclude – Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd has unsuccessfully argued the points made in my appeal. The driver did not “choose to ignore the terms and remain on red route” they were not governed by the terms of the red route through dispensation from Transport for London. The driver did not park in a Taxi Rank, rather they set down a pre booked fare in the appropriate ‘Taxi drop off point only’ bay and were not given the minimum 5-minute observation grace period. Their signage is prohibitory and cannot support a claim based on contract law and Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd have not definitively proven that PoFA applies and is therefore non-compliant. Given the points and facts above, I urge you to allow the appeal and cancel the Parking Charge.

Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
« Reply #36 on: »
Here's a slightly more grammatically correct version which you can copy and paste into the webform response. No need for "Dear Assessor".

Quote
POPLA Appeal Rebuttal – Comments on Operator Evidence

In response to the evidence submitted by Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd, I would like to highlight several factual errors and omissions which undermine their case.

1. The contract they rely on is signed by a leaseholder and includes a request to “provide a document or contract where states your authority over the site to be managed by us.” They have failed to provide any evidence that the leaseholder has authority from the landowner to enter into a contract with PPS. Without proof that the landowner has granted such rights, this contract is insufficient. Furthermore, PPS has provided no evidence that the land is not under statutory control. The area may fall under the control of Transport for London, the London Borough of Newham, or the Port of London Authority. If so, the land is excluded from Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, and keeper liability cannot apply.

2. PPS claims the vehicle was parked in a taxi rank. This is factually incorrect. Their own photographic evidence shows the vehicle was stopped in a bay marked “TAXI DROP OFF POINT ONLY.” A drop-off bay is not a taxi rank. According to Transport for London’s published parking guidance for private hire drivers, licensed PHVs are permitted to stop briefly to pick up or drop off passengers on red routes, including in designated drop-off bays, provided there is no signage stating otherwise. The vehicle stopped briefly to allow a pre-booked passenger to alight and then left. This complies with TfL’s rules. The relevant guidance is found on TfL’s website: https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/taxis-and-private-hire/parking-information.

3. PPS claim that stopping on a red route is prohibited and that only black cabs are exempt. This is false. Transport for London’s own published guidance confirms that licensed private hire vehicles may stop on single and double red lines to pick up or drop off passengers, even in areas with waiting or loading restrictions, as long as there is no signage explicitly prohibiting stopping. The vehicle was a TfL-licensed PHV and was performing a lawful drop-off, consistent with TfL’s rules. This is confirmed in TfL’s Private Hire Vehicle Driver’s Handbook and on their official webpage: https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/taxis-and-private-hire/parking-information.

4. PPS argues that the driver is not entitled to the five-minute consideration period because the vehicle was parked in a taxi rank. As already shown, this is false. The bay is a taxi drop-off point, not a rank. Therefore, their entire justification for denying the consideration period is based on a misrepresentation of the location. The photos show the vehicle was on site for only 2 minutes and 35 seconds. This is less than the required minimum five-minute consideration period set out in the Private Parking Single Code of Practice. Without evidence of the vehicle being parked for more than the minimum consideration period, there is no evidence of a contract being formed by conduct, even if the signs were not prohibitory.

5. The signage is prohibitory. It states, “No parking, waiting, loading or unloading on the roads and footpaths at any time.” This is not an offer to park under any conditions and cannot form the basis of a contract. Even a POPLA assessor should know that for a contract to be formed by conduct, basic contract law requires three essential elements: offer, acceptance, and consideration. In this case, the sign does not contain any offer that a motorist can accept. It is purely a prohibition and does not invite any action or provide any alternative conditions under which stopping or parking is permitted. There is no consideration being offered in return for compliance or any reference to a charge being incurred for breaching terms. PPS claims that a contract was formed, but the wording on the sign contradicts that and fails to satisfy the legal test. This principle was confirmed in PCM v Bull (2016), where the court held that a prohibitory notice cannot give rise to contractual liability.

6. PPS fails to address the point made in my original appeal that set-down is not parking. Instead, they continue to rely on their incorrect description of the area as a taxi rank. Their own evidence contradicts this.

7. PPS suggests that because I have not named the driver, I am liable. This is incorrect. They must meet all conditions of PoFA to hold the keeper liable. They have not shown that a 'period of parking' beyond the minimum consideration period which according to the persuasive appellate case of Brennan v PPS (this same operator) has been evidenced in order to comply with PoFA 9(20(a) has been met. They have not demonstrated that the land is relevant under PoFA, nor have they complied with all other PoFA requirements. There is also no legal basis to presume that the keeper was the driver. In VCS v Edward (2023), the court confirmed that a keeper cannot be assumed to be the driver simply because they do not identify who was driving.

In conclusion, PPS has failed to prove that the land is relevant land, failed to show a period of parking beyond the minimum consideration period, failed to produce evidence of landowner authority, misrepresented the location, ignored the TfL exemptions for PHVs, denied the consideration period based on a false claim, relied on prohibitory signage, and made an incorrect assumption about keeper liability. The vehicle was lawfully stopped in a bay marked for drop-off only, not parked. The charge should be cancelled.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
« Reply #37 on: »
Lost for words bar one....AMAZING!

Thank you, I will put this into the link POPLA have sent on their last email and keep my fingers crossed.

TBC...

Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
« Reply #38 on: »
Hello all, just an update on the appeal and I have a huge thank you to send to everyone - especially to b789, your input was invaluable!!

The appeal was successful and I no longer have to worry over it until 'inevitably' the next time some idiot gives 'the driver' another ticket.

The grounds for allowing the appeal are below...

"This decision relates to PCN:****** The operator is a member of the British Parking Association (BPA), which uses a code of practice detailing the standards that it needs to uphold as a part of its membership - the Private Parking Single Code of Practice. It is the operator’s responsibility to demonstrate to POPLA that they have issued the PCN correctly. I am allowing this appeal, with my reasoning outlined below: Within their grounds of appeal, the appellant states that as the area does not permit parking at any time, no contract or agreement can be entered into as it fails the contractual basic test with no offer and no consideration, resulting in no contract. The signage on site states that no parking at any time is permitted and failure to comply would result in a £100 PCN. It must be recognised that the area in question does not permit motorists to park within the managed area as there are no parking facilities such as parking bays offered within this area. As parking is prohibited, I concur with the appellant that no parking contract could be entered into, and therefore the motorist would not have breached the terms of a contract that couldn’t be entered into. Accordingly, I allow this appeal. The appellant has raised other grounds in their appeal, but as I am allowing the appeal, it is not necessary for me to address these."

Shame they wouldn't take the time to address the other 6 points raised in the appeal!

Is there any other complaint that I could make against PPS for the scam they are running at Royal Victoria Docks?

I would be more than happy to waste more of my time doing that...lol  ;)
« Last Edit: July 30, 2025, 03:24:59 pm by saozgirl03 »
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Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
« Reply #39 on: »
That's a surprisingly good assessment from the POPLA assessor... I say 'surprisingly' as they rarely accept the point around prohibitive signage, as if they regularly did so it would undermine the revenue model at many sites.

You could complain to the British Parking Association (you would first need to complain to PPS before the BPA will consider a complaint). I'd be surprised if they reach the same conclusion as the POPLA assessor, but it might be interesting to see what their response is.

Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
« Reply #40 on: »
You can take the time to take part in the ongoing government consultation about getting this rogue industry regulated by statute, that is linked in my signature.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
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Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
« Reply #41 on: »
Perfect, I shall look into both your suggestions and in regards to complaining to PPS and then BPA I will post any response back from them here out of interest for anyone who wants to know!

Thank you all again - this forum is absolutely fantastic and keep up the amazing work you all do  :)