Author Topic: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James  (Read 261 times)

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gliderpilot63

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Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
« on: February 26, 2025, 02:40:44 pm »
Hope someone can offer some guidance so that I can help a friend who has received the below PCN from Parkingeye Ltd.

As I understand it, my friend drove into the car park and needed to stay for more than 24 hours.  Apparently it took a little while before it became clear that there was not an option to park for this length of time, so my friend left the car park.

My friend has limited mobility and it took a while to view a couple of signs and to speak to someone who advised where the nearest long-stay car park could be found.

Overall length of time in the car park was just under 10 minutes as noted on the NTK. 

Thanks in advance. [ Guests cannot view attachments ]

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b789

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Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2025, 08:22:11 pm »
Does your friend's "limited mobility" come under the Equality Act 2010 as a "protected characteristic"? Do they have Blue Badge?

Is the location St James Church, Doncaster? If so, can your friend go back to the church and ask someone in charge there to get Parking Eye to cancel the Parking Charge Notice (PCN)? That would be their Plan A.

There are several technical flaws with the Notice to Keeper (NtK) that can be used in any appeal or even in court. However, that is a long way off. The Keeper has until 26th March to appeal, so no rush and PE will reject any appeal anyway.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

gliderpilot63

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Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2025, 08:59:24 pm »
Does your friend's "limited mobility" come under the Equality Act 2010 as a "protected characteristic"? Do they have Blue Badge?

Is the location St James Church, Doncaster? If so, can your friend go back to the church and ask someone in charge there to get Parking Eye to cancel the Parking Charge Notice (PCN)? That would be their Plan A.

There are several technical flaws with the Notice to Keeper (NtK) that can be used in any appeal or even in court. However, that is a long way off. The Keeper has until 26th March to appeal, so no rush and PE will reject any appeal anyway.

Thanks for your reply.  I do not believe they have a Blue Badge.  Knee problems mean that walking is painful and slow.

I do not know whether the car park is St James Church, Doncaster.  I will ask in case that is known.  If St James Church car park is for the Church itself, I doubt it, as they were trying to park to go on a train journey to London, so I suspect that they were looking for rail parking.  They will certainly have had no business with the Church.


gliderpilot63

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Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2025, 10:02:12 pm »
Just found that the car park is St James Church, Doncaster. 

However, my friend lives too far away from Doncaster to make a trip to the Church to request cancellation practical. 

The driver does not hold a Blue Badge. 

b789

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Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2025, 12:16:54 am »
OK. Remind us in a few days to put together an appeal based on the information you have provided and the technical failures in their NtK.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

DWMB2

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Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2025, 01:01:30 am »
The starting point for any appeal here will be the duration of the stay and the circumstances of the driver. From a very loose estimate there are 500+ words on that T&Cs sign.

Assuming a reading speed of 230wpm that's at least 2 minutes just to properly consider the terms of the contract. Add to that the time taken to drive in and park up in a space in what appears to be a 300 space car park, then the time taken to walk to the payment machine and T&Cs sign with limited mobility, then the time taken to walk back again having decided against parking there, and finally the time taken to drive back out.

Put all that together and a 'stay' of 9 minutes seems entirely reasonable, warranting a departure from the minimum consideration period of 5 minutes.

I note you mention the driver does not have a blue badge, but do they have any sort of diagnosis to refer to? As b789 has noted, if the driver was disabled, then once it is brought to ParkingEye's attention, an argument can be made that they should make a reasonable adjustment for this and cancel the charge.

gliderpilot63

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Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2025, 10:23:50 am »
OK. Remind us in a few days to put together an appeal based on the information you have provided and the technical failures in their NtK.

Will do.  That would be great, thanks

gliderpilot63

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Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2025, 10:35:28 am »
The starting point for any appeal here will be the duration of the stay and the circumstances of the driver. From a very loose estimate there are 500+ words on that T&Cs sign.

Assuming a reading speed of 230wpm that's at least 2 minutes just to properly consider the terms of the contract. Add to that the time taken to drive in and park up in a space in what appears to be a 300 space car park, then the time taken to walk to the payment machine and T&Cs sign with limited mobility, then the time taken to walk back again having decided against parking there, and finally the time taken to drive back out.

Put all that together and a 'stay' of 9 minutes seems entirely reasonable, warranting a departure from the minimum consideration period of 5 minutes.

I note you mention the driver does not have a blue badge, but do they have any sort of diagnosis to refer to? As b789 has noted, if the driver was disabled, then once it is brought to ParkingEye's attention, an argument can be made that they should make a reasonable adjustment for this and cancel the charge.

Thanks DWMB2.  The car park was busy and almost full when they arrived.  They ended up trying two separate spaces which were too tight to for the driver to be able to get out of the car, before finding a third which was big enough to do so.  They then went to the ticket machine to find that there was no option for parking over 24 hours and then went to the sign to see if there was any mention of parking for longer periods. 

A few years ago that particular car park allowed long-term (i.e. over 24 hours) parking and the driver went there because in the past that is where they had parked when leaving the car for a few days.  Anecdotally, after they left this car park they immediately went to another nearby car park, also run by ParkingEye, and parked successfully for the duration of their 2 day visit to London.  Paying for that stay was not straightforward, but they have the receipts if for any reason they receive another PCN.

The driver has one replacement knee, walks with a stick and is on a waiting list for the other knee to be replaced.  All of this can be evidenced.

Dave65

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Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2025, 11:22:03 am »
Would the 5 minutes issue come under the change in this new CoP just come out?

DWMB2

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Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2025, 11:50:45 am »
I'm not sure the new rule is of any relevance... That rule relates to cases where payment is made, but it takes the motorist longer than the time the operator allows.

Here the driver chose not to accept the contract on offer and left, and the argument is that due to a range of factors (discussed above), they needed longer than 5 minutes for this.

b789

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Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2025, 01:51:41 pm »
The driver’s condition is classed as a protected characteristic under the Equality Act 2010 (EA).

Under Section 6 of the EA 2010, a person is considered disabled if they have a physical or mental impairment that has a substantial and long-term adverse effect on their ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities.

In this case:

Physical impairment: The driver has a replacement knee, relies on a walking stick, and is awaiting another knee replacement.
Substantial effect: Mobility is clearly restricted, impacting normal activities like walking and standing.
Long-term: The condition is ongoing, with further medical intervention planned. A condition lasting 12 months or more qualifies as long-term.

Application under the EA 2010:

• The driver meets the definition of disability under the Act.
• This means they are entitled to reasonable adjustments, such as adequate disabled parking provisions and exemptions from unfair penalties where mobility limitations are a factor.

As this is related to a private parking charge, ParkingEye has a legal duty to make reasonable adjustments, and failure to do so amounts to disability discrimination.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

gliderpilot63

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Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2025, 02:21:46 pm »
So will it be possible to appeal without identifying the driver? 

It will only be the driver that is able to evidence the disability and so evidencing that will, by necessity, result in identification of the driver, unless evidencing the disability is not required for making the appeal.

b789

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Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2025, 03:45:59 pm »
In this case, yes, it is better to appeal as the driver. They will need to provide some evidence of their disability.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
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DWMB2

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Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2025, 03:52:20 pm »
Agreed - the downside of throwing away some potential PoFA arguments is outweighed by the merits of the driver's arguments re. their mobility, in my view.

gliderpilot63

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Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2025, 10:06:11 am »
OK. Remind us in a few days to put together an appeal based on the information you have provided and the technical failures in their NtK.

Would it be possible for you to provide me with some draft wording to go into the appeal letter please?  I am conscious that if the appeal reveals the identity of the driver the NtK defects pretty much become irrelevant. 

My friend has said that the driver is prepared to go to court if necessary to clear this charge, being utterly appalled by the approach taken.  One thing the keeper noted was that there is no mention on the signage that ParkingEye only expect to allow 5 minutes to park.  The driver had taken longer than this to find a space which would allow exiting the car before getting to the machine and sign to find that parking over 24 hours was not allowed.  If the sign had in fact said that drivers were only allowed 5 minutes before they become liable to pay for parking, a ticket would have been purchased. 

Thanks in advance.