Author Topic: ParkingEye Charge Notice for 3minutes in retail carpark.  (Read 498 times)

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Jibberjabber

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ParkingEye Charge Notice for 3minutes in retail carpark.
« on: March 15, 2025, 01:06:25 pm »
Good afternoon.  I am the keeper of the vehicle and the driver has recieved an charge while using a retail car park, over by 3 minutes.

The driver recieved a charge today for a £100 parking charge in a supermarket carpark.  The driver was in the car park for 1hr 33m.  The sign that assured the driver they could park there was very well lit (this was late at night) and clearly stated 3 hours max stay.  The driver was picking up a 14yo child along with her friend (with a disibilty) who were attending an event in the nearby stadium.  The carpak was the safest and closest place to park given the age of the children and the disability of one of the children.  The driver is from way out of the area and has not parked here before.

The sign that PE has brought to the drivers attention and is charging the driver for, states 3 hours max stay, 1.5h max stay on match / event days.  The driver has since checked out that particular sign which is on entry of the car park where you cannot stop, is on a  bend, and isn't even in a lit area. So impossible to see unless you know it is there.

On the email, it states that the charge is applicable if the vehicle remains in the car park for longer than the 1hours and 0 minutes max stay time, but the sign in question to enforce the 'charge' says 1hr 30min, technically I was a life shattering 3 minutes over.

The photograph is the email is of the drivers number plate.  You cannot even see the car because it was so dark.  How can you see an unlit sign in the dark outlining PE conditions when the only well lit signs are the 3 hour max stay ones?

How does the driver approach this? Can the driver use evidence of one of the children being disabled (not visible) hence parking as close as possible?

TIA. 
« Last Edit: March 15, 2025, 01:09:08 pm by Jibberjabber »

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b789

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Re: ParkingEye Charge Notice for 3minutes in retail carpark.
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2025, 02:13:01 pm »
Mitigation is not going to do you any good. You will win this if you stick to our advice and use their technical failures against them.

ParkingEye Notices to Keeper (NtK) are never fully compliant with all the requirements of PoFA and so tney cannot transfer liability from the unknown driver to the known keeper. However, that single point on its own is not sufficient.

You have shown GSV signs but they are undated. The sign that shows 3 hours parking but limited. To 1.5 hours in a match day is unenforceable unless there is also notice of when “match days” are in effect. How is someone from out of the area or not remotely interested in whatever “match” is about supposed to know this. There is a very good defence under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (CRA).

Also, the signage contradicts what is on the NtK, which states that the vehicle exceeded 1 hour limit.

It would help if you could show us the NtK, redacting only your personal info and the PCN. Umber.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

b789

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Re: ParkingEye Charge Notice for 3minutes in retail carpark.
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2025, 03:09:04 pm »
Is the vehicle leased? Is the notice you received addressed to you, the Keeper?
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Jibberjabber

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Re: ParkingEye Charge Notice for 3minutes in retail carpark.
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2025, 04:21:46 pm »
Thanks for the replies. Yes the vehicle is leased and I'm the keeper.  I've attached the letter.

DWMB2

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Re: ParkingEye Charge Notice for 3minutes in retail carpark.
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2025, 04:50:05 pm »
So presumably you aren't the registered keeper (that is, you don't hold the vehicle's V5C document in your name, the lease company holding this instead)?

Are we also correct to assume that the notice you have shown us was not accompanied by any other documents (such as a copy of your lease agreement)?

If so, then as the hirer (not revealing who was driving), you can appeal along the following lines...

Dear Sirs,

I have received you Notice to Hirer [(PCN number)] for Vehicle Registration Mark [VRM]. I am the hirer of the vehicle. There is no obligation for me to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

To hold me liable for the charge as the hirer of the vehicle, you must meet the conditions specified in Paragraph 14 of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (“the Act”). I note from your correspondence that you have failed to meet these conditions. These failures include (but are not limited to):

  • A failure to serve a Notice to Hirer containing all the information required by 14(5) of the Act.
  • A failure to include the additional documents mentioned by 13(2) of the Act.

As a result of this, you are unable to recover the specified charge from me, the hirer. As I do not have liability for this charge, I am unable to help you further with this matter. I therefore look forward to your confirmation that the charge has been cancelled. If you do not cancel the charge, you must provide a POPLA code.

Yours


If appealing online, be careful there are no drop down/tick boxes that cause you to identify who was driving, and keep a close eye on your spam folder for their response. If they do not respond within 28 days, chase them.

If any of the above assumptions are wrong, or the notice from Parking Eye is not addressed to you, let us know before acting.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2025, 04:53:19 pm by DWMB2 »

Jibberjabber

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Re: ParkingEye Charge Notice for 3minutes in retail carpark.
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2025, 05:19:52 pm »
These emails were also received from the lease company if you needed to see them.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2025, 05:21:45 pm by Jibberjabber »

DWMB2

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Re: ParkingEye Charge Notice for 3minutes in retail carpark.
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2025, 05:29:29 pm »
We just need the answers to my questions in the previous post.

For ease:
  • is the notice you've shown us addressed to you, or to the lease company?
  • If the notice is addressed to you, did ParkingEye send any other documents alongside the notice?

Jibberjabber

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Re: ParkingEye Charge Notice for 3minutes in retail carpark.
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2025, 05:42:03 pm »
Ah apologies.  No, it was addressed to the lease company, who then emailed myself.

DWMB2

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Re: ParkingEye Charge Notice for 3minutes in retail carpark.
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2025, 05:45:07 pm »
In which case, you need to confirm with the lease company that they have passed on your details to ParkingEye as the hirer.

One of their emails says they will, but it's well worth confirming.

You should then receive your own notice from ParkingEye, which you can then appeal.

Jibberjabber

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Re: ParkingEye Charge Notice for 3minutes in retail carpark.
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2025, 06:00:16 pm »
Thank you.  I'll double check.  So then just to confirm, when I recieve physical post, appeal online using the above template?

DWMB2

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Re: ParkingEye Charge Notice for 3minutes in retail carpark.
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2025, 06:19:25 pm »
When you receive a notice in your own name, it'd be good to show us, and confirm that no other documents are enclosed. But that appeal will almost certainly be suitable.

b789

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Re: ParkingEye Charge Notice for 3minutes in retail carpark.
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2025, 06:47:04 pm »
Let's be clear on this as it will not be the first time that a lease company manages to screw this up and leave you out of pocket.

You cannot do anything until you receive a Notice in YOUR name. You will note that the copy of the Notice to Keeper (NtK) that was sent to the Registered Keeper (RK) Mitsubishi/Hitachi or whoever they are this week, does not comply with the BPA/IPC Private Parking Single Code of Practice (PPSCoP) section 8.4.3 which states:

"Parking operators must provide a process for rental and leasing companies to transfer liability."

Missing is the required information for a Lease/Hire company on what to do if the vehicle is under a Hire/Lease agreement. It should mention somewhere on the NtK something along these lines: "If you are a vehicle-hire firm and the vehicle was on hire at the time of the parking incident, please let us know and provide us with a copy of the hire agreement and a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement."

The NtK does not have any statement informing rental and leasing companies on what they must to in order to transfer liability. If the lease/hire company transfers liability as required by PoFA, the operator cannot later go back and try and recover anything from them.

Mitsubishi's letter of the 15th March says they have transferred liability to you. However, unless they have done so in accordance with the requirements in PoFA, technically, they can still be liable. They were required to send to the operator copies of:

(a) a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement; (done)
(b) a copy of the hire agreement; and (???)
(c) a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement. (???)

They have complied with (a) above but have they complied with (b) and (c)?

The operator now has to issue a Notice to Hirer (NtH) in your name and should include with that NtH, copies of the documents mentioned in (a), (b) and (c) above together with a copy of the NtK that was sent to the RK. IN 99.99% of cases, the operator fails to send copies of the required documents as stipulated in PoFA paragraph 14(2)(a) which means that the Hirer cannot be liable. Only the driver is liable and they do not know the identity of the driver unless you, the Hirer tells them, inadvertently or otherwise. So, you must only ever refer to the driver in the third person. No "I did this or that" only "the driver did this or that".

For now, you can not do anything until you receive the NtH in your own name. When you do, then you can use the appeal as provided above by @DWMB2.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2025, 06:49:17 pm by b789 »
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Jibberjabber

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Re: ParkingEye Charge Notice for 3minutes in retail carpark.
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2025, 07:26:58 pm »
Wow you guys really know your stuff.  Thank you very much for your detailed replies, I very much appreciate it. I'll await physical post and I'll update this post accordingly.  Why do these disgusting companies exist?  >:(

DWMB2

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Re: ParkingEye Charge Notice for 3minutes in retail carpark.
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2025, 07:43:59 pm »
Why do these disgusting companies exist?  >:(


They exist out of desire on the part of landowners to deter misuse of their car parks. Unfortunately, these companies abuse this desire to run their businesses in a way that maximises their income, without regard to fairness or proportionality.

Jibberjabber

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Re: ParkingEye Charge Notice for 3minutes in retail carpark.
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2025, 07:54:11 pm »
It's terrible.  Dare I ask why the government aren't trying to halt these companies?  My OAP mum had the same type of letter just a couple of months ago, for the wheel of her car being slightly out of the bay. She is driving a motobility vehicle.  I didn't know this forum existed at the time, and she didn't want to contest as she didn't know how, the stress of even receiving the letter was enough for her not wanting to detest it due to the unknown of what the backlash could be.  I hope more people find this place.  They cannot get away with what they do to people against the tedious of things.  Ugh they make me sick.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2025, 07:58:09 pm by Jibberjabber »