3. Parking ticket at Sainsburys car park
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Parking ticket at Sainsburys car park
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Hi there,
I got a ticket through the post saying the driver park at a Sainsburys car park without displaying a blue badge, the ticket saying if you are not the driver then to give the drivers details but does not mention how to provide the details of the driver, i got a letter today from debit recovery company asking for money.
Any idea what I can do.
Thanks
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Re: Parking ticket at Sainsburys car park
« Reply #1 on: »
You need to show the NTK for appropriate advice under normal circumstances you could make representations to Sainsbury’s Management in order to cancel.
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Re: Parking ticket at Sainsburys car park
« Reply #2 on: »
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Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
Re: Parking ticket at Sainsburys car park
« Reply #3 on: »
Hi there,
Please see attached NTK

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Re: Parking ticket at Sainsburys car park
« Reply #4 on: »
Is the Vehicle hired or leased? Have you made any representations to ECP? Have you asked Sainsbury's to get the PCN cancelled?

Under no circumstances identify the driver. You are the Hirer. You only refer to the driver in the third person. No "I did this or that", only "the driver did this or that".

This is because ECP have not complied with PoFA 2012 and therefore cannot transfer liability from the unknown (to them) driver to the known Hirer.

However, as it is too late to appeal now, assuming you have not done so already, it will need handling slightly differently. The important thing you should know is that as long as you follow our advice, you won't be paying a penny to ECP.

So, please answer my initial questions before we can proceed.
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Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
Re: Parking ticket at Sainsburys car park
« Reply #5 on: »
Is the Vehicle hired or leased? Yes leased
 Have you made any representations to ECP? No was looking to see how I can inform the company that I was not the driver but couldn’t see any details on the NTK
Have you asked Sainsbury's to get the PCN cancelled? No I didn’t know I could
« Last Edit: June 06, 2025, 04:37:07 pm by PCN ticket »
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Re: Parking ticket at Sainsburys car park
« Reply #6 on: »
Easy one to deal with… as long as the unknown drivers identity is not revealed. There is no legal obligation on the known Hirer (the recipient of the Notice to Hirer (NtH)) to reveal the identity of the unknown driver and no inference or assumptions can be made.

The NtH is not compliant with all the requirements of PoFA which means that if the unknown driver is not identified, they cannot transfer liability for the charge from the unknown driver to the known Hirer.

Use the following as your appeal. No need to embellish or remove anything from it:

Quote
I am the Hirer of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

As your Notice to Hirer (NtH) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the Hirer of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. ECP has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The Hirer cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtH can only hold the driver liable. ECP have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.
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Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
Re: Parking ticket at Sainsburys car park
« Reply #7 on: »
I tried to appeal on the ECP website it says I  can’t appeal to them and to contact the debt recovery company to appeal to them.
What should I do, should I send what you wrote to the debt recovery company?
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Re: Parking ticket at Sainsburys car park
« Reply #8 on: »
Just to confirm the vehicle is leased from motability and my name is on the logbook does that make any difference or is that the same as leasing.
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Re: Parking ticket at Sainsburys car park
« Reply #9 on: »
If the vehicle is on lease from Motability, your name cannot be on the logbook (V5C) as you are not the Keeper. Leased vehicles from Motability are registered to Motability Operations Ltd as far as I am aware.

You are the Hirer. What have you received from Motability about this PCN? What have you had from ECP in YOUR name?
« Last Edit: June 08, 2025, 06:03:11 pm by b789 »
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Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
Re: Parking ticket at Sainsburys car park
« Reply #10 on: »
Quote from: b789 on June 08, 2025, 06:01:25 pm
If the vehicle is on lease from Motability, your name cannot be on the logbook (V5C) as you are not the Keeper. Leased vehicles from Motability are registered to Motability Operations Ltd as far as I am aware.

You are the Hirer. What have you received from Motability about this PCN? What have you had from ECP in YOUR name?

That’s not usually the case with Motability. In virtually every case, Motability registers the vehicle in the customer’s name at the DVLA but retains physical possession of the V5C (log book) with the customer’s name on it.

If you are a genuine blue badge holding Sainsbury’s customer, email your evidence to Sainsbury’s executive office and ask them to cancel the ticket for you.  The address is executive.office@sainsburys.co.uk
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Re: Parking ticket at Sainsburys car park
« Reply #11 on: »
OK, to clarify... For a Motability customer, although the vehicle is leased from Motability Operations Ltd, the customer is the Registered Keeper, as the V5C is issued in their name and address. They are also technically the Hirer, but this distinction is not relevant for the purposes of PoFA where the DVLA records them as the Keeper.

Any Notice to Keeper (NtK) must therefore comply fully with all the requirements of Paragraphs 8 or 9 of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) in order to hold the Keeper liable. The Hirer provisions under Paragraphs 13 and 14 do not apply where the Keeper's details were obtained directly from the DVLA.

If the operator fails to meet the conditions set out in Paragraphs 8 or 9, no Keeper liability can arise, and the Motability customer is under no obligation to identify the driver. When challenging a PCN, the Motability customer should describe themselves as the Registered Keeper, not the Hirer.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2025, 07:22:22 pm by b789 »
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Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
Re: Parking ticket at Sainsburys car park
« Reply #12 on: »
Or (if the facts justify it) just ask Sainsbury’s to cancel the ticket. Which is a lot easier and usually produces a result almost immediately
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Re: Parking ticket at Sainsburys car park
« Reply #13 on: »
OP - put us out of our misery. I’m guessing that as a Motability customer, you have a blue badge. Is that right?
« Last Edit: June 08, 2025, 07:46:23 pm by Nosy Parker »
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Re: Parking ticket at Sainsburys car park
« Reply #14 on: »
Yes, motability put the registered keepers name on the logbook and keep the logbook, Yes I do have a blue badge
« Last Edit: June 09, 2025, 10:28:37 am by PCN ticket »
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