Author Topic: PPS - Parking Charge Notice - Parking in no Parking Area - Hounslow TW3  (Read 1828 times)

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Re: PPS - Parking Charge Notice - Parking in no Parking Area - Hounslow TW3
« Reply #15 on: »
As expected (though slightly quicker than I expected), PPS have rejected the appeal.



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Re: PPS - Parking Charge Notice - Parking in no Parking Area - Hounslow TW3
« Reply #16 on: »
So you have 33 days from today to submit your POPLA appeal. Put together what you intend to say and show us before sending it for a critique.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: PPS - Parking Charge Notice - Parking in no Parking Area - Hounslow TW3
« Reply #17 on: »
Is there any reason it would be any different to the appeal already submitted to, and rejected by, PPS? (as drafted by DWMB2)

Re: PPS - Parking Charge Notice - Parking in no Parking Area - Hounslow TW3
« Reply #18 on: »
I don't know what a POPLA appeal form looks like - so am just logging on to it to see. I presume I'll be able to back out of it. Broadly my intention is to submit the same appeal provided to me previously, maybe making small adjustments to counter what PPS responded with, if appropriate.

Re: PPS - Parking Charge Notice - Parking in no Parking Area - Hounslow TW3
« Reply #19 on: »
This is what I intend to submit to POPLA as my grounds for appeal - effectively it is what DWMB2 provided me with for the PPS appeal.

Quote
1. No keeper liability - failure to comply with Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA)

The driver has not been identified and this invoice has been issued to me as the vehicle keeper. The vehicle has been photographed in "Matisse Street". The invoice has been issued as a charge for parking in "Holloway Street, Hounslow". There is no evidence provided that the vehicle at any stage entered Holloway Street, much less parked there. The invoice has therefore been issued incorrectly as the relevant land required under paragraph 9(2)(a) of PoFA has not been correctly identified and therefore, as the registered keeper, I cannot be held liable. Maps attached (one from Ordnance Survey and one from Google Maps) highlight the location where PPS show the vehicle, on Matisse Street.

2. The driver was not afforded a sufficient consideration period

It is well-established in contract law that a party cannot be bound by contract terms with which he has had no real opportunity of becoming acquainted. This is reinforced by 5.1. of the Private Parking Sector Single Code of Practice, which deals with appropriate consideration periods. The pictures taken by the PPS operative of the vehicle cover a period of ~1 minute, a time that is clearly insufficient to properly read the terms of the alleged contract.

3. The signage is incapable of forming a valid contract between PPS and the driver

The signage at the site states "NO PARKING AT ANY TIME", and "strictly no parking, waiting or loading at any time". These instructions are clearly forbidding, and make no offer to the driver to park on certain terms. On the contrary, they forbid any parking or waiting. If there is no offer to park on certain terms, there can be no contract, meaning no charge can be due.


« Last Edit: August 18, 2024, 03:57:37 pm by HoundDog »

Re: PPS - Parking Charge Notice - Parking in no Parking Area - Hounslow TW3
« Reply #20 on: »
I don't know what a POPLA appeal form looks like - so am just logging on to it to see. I presume I'll be able to back out of it. Broadly my intention is to submit the same appeal provided to me previously, maybe making small adjustments to counter what PPS responded with, if appropriate.

There is no "form". It is a webform but you don't use that. Put your POPLA appeal as a PDF which you can upload.

The above appeal is fine. You can add other things such as No landowner authority to issue contracts in their own name. Make them provide a copy of a valid and current contract that states precisely what they can and can't do.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: PPS - Parking Charge Notice - Parking in no Parking Area - Hounslow TW3
« Reply #21 on: »
Thank you, I will put it in a PDF and upload that.

Based on your comment, does the following paragraph make sense to add?

Quote
4 No evidence of landowner authority

PPS have issued their invoice to me assuming consent from the landowner, but have provided no evidence that the landowner has provided that consent. It is assumed that PPS are themselves not the landowner and it is unclear that they have any authority to issue an invoice on behalf of the landowner.

Re: PPS - Parking Charge Notice - Parking in no Parking Area - Hounslow TW3
« Reply #22 on: »
You could try this:

Quote
No evidence of landholder authority

The operator is also put to strict proof, by means of contemporaneous and unredacted evidence, of a chain of authority flowing from the landholder of the "relevant land" to the operator. It is not accepted that the operator has adhered to the landholder's definitions, exemptions, grace period, hours of operation, etc. and any instructions to cancel charges due to complaints. There is no evidence that the freeholder authorises this operator to issue parking charges or what the land enforcement boundary and start/expiry dates are, nor whether this operator has standing to enforce such charges in their own name rather than a bare licence to act as an agent ‘on behalf of’ the landowner.

The operator is put to strict proof of full compliance with the BPA Code of Practice. As this operator does not have proprietary interest in the “relevant land” then I require that they produce an unredacted copy of the contract with the landowner. The contract and any 'site agreement' or 'User Manual' setting out details including exemptions - such as any 'genuine customer' or 'genuine resident' exemptions or any site occupier's 'right of veto' charge cancellation rights - is key evidence to define what this operator is authorised to do and any circumstances where the landowner/firms on site in fact have a right to cancellation of a charge. It cannot be assumed, just because an agent is contracted to merely put some signs up and issue Parking Charge Notices, that the agent is also authorised to make contracts with all or any category of visiting drivers and/or to enforce the charge in court in their own name (legal action regarding land use disputes generally being a matter for a landowner only). Witness statements are not sound evidence of the above, often being pre-signed, generic documents not even identifying the case in hand or even the site rules.

A witness statement might in some cases be accepted by POPLA but in this case I suggest it is unlikely to sufficiently evidence the definition of the services provided by each party to the agreement. Nor would it define vital information such as charging days/times, any exemption clauses, grace periods (which I believe may be longer than the bare minimum times set out in the BPA CoP) and basic information such as the land boundary and bays where enforcement applies/does
not apply.

Not forgetting evidence of the various restrictions which the landowner has authorised can give rise to a charge and, of course, how much the landowner authorises this agent to charge (which cannot be assumed to be the sum on a sign because template private parking terms and sums have been known not to match the actual landowner agreement). Paragraph 7 of the BPA Code of Practice defines the mandatory requirements and I put this operator to strict proof of full compliance:

7.2 If the operator wishes to take legal action on any outstanding parking charges, they must ensure that they have the written authority of the landowner (or their appointed agent) prior to legal action being taken.

7.3 The written authorisation must also set out:

(a) the definition of the land on which you may operate, so that the boundaries of the land can be clearly defined
(b) any conditions or restrictions on parking control and enforcement operations, including any restrictions on hours of operation
(c) any conditions or restrictions on the types of vehicles that may, or may not, be subject to parking control and enforcement
(d) who has the responsibility for putting up and maintaining signs
(e) the definition of the services provided by each party to the agreement
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: PPS - Parking Charge Notice - Parking in no Parking Area - Hounslow TW3
« Reply #23 on: »
Thankyou - I will use that

Re: PPS - Parking Charge Notice - Parking in no Parking Area - Hounslow TW3
« Reply #24 on: »
Just "for the record" - I have just submitted my appeal to POPLA.

Re: PPS - Parking Charge Notice - Parking in no Parking Area - Hounslow TW3
« Reply #25 on: »
In due course, PPS will respond with an 'evidence pack' - come back to us when they do, as you will be given the opportunity to respond to it.

Re: PPS - Parking Charge Notice - Parking in no Parking Area - Hounslow TW3
« Reply #26 on: »
I received the following email from POPLA today which I presume means that we have won!

"The operator has contacted us and told us that they have withdrawn your appeal.

If you have already paid your parking charge, this is the reason your appeal will have been withdrawn. Unfortunately, you cannot pay your parking charge and appeal, which means that POPLA’s involvement in your appeal has ended. You will not be able to request a refund of the amount paid in order to resubmit your appeal to us.

If you have not paid your parking charge, the operator has reviewed your appeal and chosen to cancel the parking charge. As the operator has withdrawn your appeal, POPLA’s involvement has now ended and you do not need to take any further action.

Kind regards

POPLA Team"

Re: PPS - Parking Charge Notice - Parking in no Parking Area - Hounslow TW3
« Reply #27 on: »
They don't fancy their chances, so have withdrawn now to save themselves having to pay the POPLA fee. Yes, it means you've won! Good result  :)