3. Parking Eye - Saltburn Leisure and Cricket Club
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Re: Parking Eye - Saltburn Leisure and Cricket Club
« Reply #15 on: »
It would be wise to re-visit the site and get your own photos if you are able. Google Street View shows a couple of entrance signs:

It also shows what appear to be a number of contractual terms and conditions signs (https://maps.app.goo.gl/K5JPngnRcxuPopwt9) - the contents of which it would be useful to see to support with your appeal. The signage we can see suggests that payment was required at the time when you were there, so it would be particularly useful to see if the more detailed signage indicates any exemptions for users of the leisure centre (and if not, whether there are any signs inside the centre that indicate otherwise).
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Re: Parking Eye - Saltburn Leisure and Cricket Club
« Reply #16 on: »
Update.
I phoned Saltburn Leisure Centre and they won't help further in speaking to Parking Eye to get the penalty overturned.

I've noticed in a Facebook group from Saltburn, a lot of the community are getting parking tickets too, even when entering their reg in the computer at the desk in reception. Many are annoyed (rightly so) as ParkingEye aren't overturning the appeals and some members of the public are just paying the fine out of fear.

I haven't been back yet to take photos of any additional signage (if there are any).

The deadline I have to contact POPLA is 14 days from the date of the most recent letter from ParkingEye (letter was dated 30 July - therefore my deadline to contact POPLA is 13 August).
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Re: Parking Eye - Saltburn Leisure and Cricket Club
« Reply #17 on: »
You keep referring to "fines" and a "penalty". If you can find either of those words anywhere in all the correspondence, I will give you £100 for each occurrence.

You need to get it into your head that this is nothing to do with any fines, penalties or offences. It is a speculative invoice from an unregulated private parking company for an alleged breach of contract by the driver.

You actually have 33 days (not 28) from the date of the appeal rejection letter from PE to file your POPLA appeal. So, you have until 1st September to submit a POPLA appeal.

The 14 days you are referring to is PEs bribe discount period. Why are you even considering this? Maybe I should send you a speculative invoice for £100 and tell you that if you pay me £60 within 14 days I'll call it "quits".

If Saltburn Leisure Centre is the contractor of PE, then it may be worth reminding whoever is fobbing you off that they are jointly and severally liable for the actions of their agents and if they are happy that their patrons are invoiced for £100 by an unregulated private parking company  who have accessed your personal data, they should be weary about their own liability. Ask them who is the monkey and who is the organ-grinder in their contractual relationship with Parking Eye.
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Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
Re: Parking Eye - Saltburn Leisure and Cricket Club
« Reply #18 on: »
We really need to see the signage to be able to advise properly. As I noted in my previous reply, the signage visible on Google Street View suggests that even customers of the leisure centre might need to pay. This might not be the case, but we need to see the signage so that we can advise accordingly.
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Re: Parking Eye - Saltburn Leisure and Cricket Club
« Reply #19 on: »
Quote from: b789 on August 09, 2024, 10:26:08 am
You keep referring to "fines" and a "penalty". If you can find either of those words anywhere in all the correspondence, I will give you £100 for each occurrence.

You need to get it into your head that this is nothing to do with any fines, penalties or offences. It is a speculative invoice from an unregulated private parking company for an alleged breach of contract by the driver.

You actually have 33 days (not 28) from the date of the appeal rejection letter from PE to file your POPLA appeal. So, you have until 1st September to submit a POPLA appeal.

The 14 days you are referring to is PEs bribe discount period. Why are you even considering this? Maybe I should send you a speculative invoice for £100 and tell you that if you pay me £60 within 14 days I'll call it "quits".

If Saltburn Leisure Centre is the contractor of PE, then it may be worth reminding whoever is fobbing you off that they are jointly and severally liable for the actions of their agents and if they are happy that their patrons are invoiced for £100 by an unregulated private parking company  who have accessed your personal data, they should be weary about their own liability. Ask them who is the monkey and who is the organ-grinder in their contractual relationship with Parking Eye.

Cheers for the reply.

I agree, I need to get out the mindset it's a fine/penalty, and instead it's an invoice. My bad.

I very much doubt I'll get an answer out of Saltburn Leisure Centre if I contact them again (for a 3rd time).

I will make a visit to the leisure centre this weekend to try and take photos of any other signage that may help my case and be in touch.

Again, thanks for all the advice/feedback so far.
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Re: Parking Eye - Saltburn Leisure and Cricket Club
« Reply #20 on: »
I've attached all the photos I've taken from the car park.


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« Last Edit: August 17, 2024, 01:28:17 pm by marvanelli »
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Re: Parking Eye - Saltburn Leisure and Cricket Club
« Reply #21 on: »
There is some ambiguity in the terms in that, do members have to pay the tariff if they use the facilities between 8am and 11pm? The signs suggests that club patrons can only use the car park between 11pm and 8am. Only "visitors" (not "patrons") need to enter their VRM into the terminal but it is not clear whether that is in addition to paying the appropriate tariff if it is between 8am and 11pm or whether they are only "visiting" between 11pm and 8am.
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Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
Re: Parking Eye - Saltburn Leisure and Cricket Club
« Reply #22 on: »
Key Points of Ambiguity:

1. Parking Usage Hours:

i. The sign states, "For use by Saltburn Cricket Club patrons only between 11pm - 8am - tariffs apply outside of these times."

ii. This suggests that club patrons are only permitted to use the car park between 11pm and 8am, implying they might be prohibited from using it outside of these hours.

2. Tariffs for Club Patrons:

i. The tariffs are listed without specifying whether they apply to club patrons if they park outside the 11pm-8am window.

ii. It’s unclear if club patrons must pay the tariff if they park between 8am and 11pm.

3. Visitor Registration:

i. The sign instructs "visitors" to enter their vehicle registration number (VRM) upon arrival to obtain a permit, but it’s not clear whether this is for any parking time or just for parking outside the 11pm-8am window.

ii. The distinction between "visitors" and "patrons" is not clearly defined, adding to the confusion.

4. Payment Obligation:

It’s unclear whether entering the VRM is in addition to paying the tariff or if it serves as a substitute for it.

Potential Issues Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015:

1. Section 68 – Transparency:

The ambiguity around when patrons need to pay and how the VRM registration fits into the parking rules could be seen as a failure to provide terms in a clear and intelligible manner.

The lack of clarity regarding the conditions under which patrons versus visitors need to pay or register their vehicles could lead to misunderstandings and disputes.

2. Fairness (Section 62):

If the terms are not clear, consumers could be unfairly penalised for not complying with terms that they did not fully understand or that were not clearly communicated.

The differentiation between "patrons" and "visitors" and how it affects their obligations, could be seen as creating an imbalance if it leads to unexpected charges.

Conclusion:

The sign has ambiguities that could lead to confusion about when parking tariffs apply to club "patrons" versus "visitors" and what actions are required (e.g., entering the VRM in a terminal). The potential for misunderstanding makes these terms problematic under the transparency requirements of the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

To resolve this, the sign would need to clearly distinguish:

The difference between "patrons" and "visitors."

Whether patrons need to pay tariffs during the day.

Whether VRM registration is required in addition to payment or under specific conditions.
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Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
Re: Parking Eye - Saltburn Leisure and Cricket Club
« Reply #23 on: »
Thanks again for the response.

At the moment, I've not replied to PE, nor have I been in touch with POPLA with an appeal.

What do you think is my next step? Starting an appeal with POPLA?

Sorry if it appears I'm being naïve. I've never had to go through this before, so it's all pretty new to me.

Thanks.
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Re: Parking Eye - Saltburn Leisure and Cricket Club
« Reply #24 on: »
It would be useful to see the signs in the car park.
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Re: Parking Eye - Saltburn Leisure and Cricket Club
« Reply #25 on: »
Hi. They’re in the thread, couple of comments up.
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Re: Parking Eye - Saltburn Leisure and Cricket Club
« Reply #26 on: »
Did you already appeal to PE? If so and they rejected the appeal, they would have provided a POPLA code. You have 33:days from the appeal rejecti9n to make your POPLA appeal.
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Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
Re: Parking Eye - Saltburn Leisure and Cricket Club
« Reply #27 on: »
Yes, they rejected the initial appeal and have provided me with a POPLA code.

I've not yet appealed to POPLA using the code.

Is that my next step?

Is it just a case of providing POPLA with the same information and explanations that I included in my original appeal to PE?

Thanks
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Re: Parking Eye - Saltburn Leisure and Cricket Club
« Reply #28 on: »
I've submitted an appeal to POPLA and included a copy of the email I received from Saltburn Leisure Centre confirming my stay and the reason for my stay.

Let's see what happens now.
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Re: Parking Eye - Saltburn Leisure and Cricket Club
« Reply #29 on: »
I assume you raised the points mentioned by b789? Can you show us what you submitted?
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