3. PCN Paid by Leasing Company - No right to appeal
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JD1905

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Re: PCN Paid by Leasing Company - No right to appeal
« Reply #30 on: June 25, 2024, 03:30:55 pm »
Quote from: JD1905 on June 25, 2024, 03:20:38 pm
Having spoken with HR they informed me


'I would advise going back to *the leasing company* to check exactly what evidence they are lookking for. It is standard practice to pay fines, but there is still an appeal process through *the leasing company*. '


'*The employer* are processing instructions from *The Leasing company* in these cases and it would be for *the leasing company* to change the process if it is not applicable in Northern Ireland'

Final word from my HR team.

"There's nothing more we can do. This is part of the contract that you have taken out with 'The leasing company' and you need to take this up with 'The leading Company' as there is nothing we can do because this process is not managed by 'Your employer"

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b789

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Re: PCN Paid by Leasing Company - No right to appeal
« Reply #31 on: June 25, 2024, 04:25:04 pm »
I'm sorry but it has now become even more confusing because you say your HR dept have told you "There's nothing more we can do. This is part of the contract that you have taken out with 'The leasing company' and you need to take this up with 'The leading Company' as there is nothing we can do because this process is not managed by 'Your employer"

I was under the impression that your company is the lessee/hirer of the vehicle and it will be they who have the contract with the lease company. What you have shown suggests that you have some sort of contract with the lease company, not your employer. Please correct me if I'm wrong in my assumptions.

The leasing company's "fines team" have evidenced their intellectual malnourishment in that response. You should feel at liberty to point out the following to them, in no uncertain terms:

As this was not a "fine" from an authority but an invoice from an unregulated private parking company and the liability for the invoice simply could have been transferred to the lessee/hirer as per the information in the NtK, the response from them is evidence that they are either stupid or too inexperienced to be dealing with these matters. A simple transfer of liability as advised in the NtK would have absolved them from any further liability or charges.

The PPC have no involvement in this. They have been paid and couldn't give a rats @rse about the plight of the OP. This is a contractual matter between the OP, their employer and the lease company. It would appear that the lease company acted recklessly by simply paying the charge, whether the contract with the lessee allowed them to do so or not. The lease company have a "Fines team" that are obviously stupid or simply plain ignorant about PCNs.

If the OP is a member of a union or professional association they should seek advice from them and also, if they have legal advice cover with one of their insurance policies, the should avail themselves of that. It should be legal advice from someone with experience of employment and contact law.
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JD1905

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Re: PCN Paid by Leasing Company - No right to appeal
« Reply #32 on: June 25, 2024, 04:52:19 pm »
Quote from: b789 on June 25, 2024, 04:25:04 pm
I'm sorry but it has now become even more confusing because you say your HR dept have told you "There's nothing more we can do. This is part of the contract that you have taken out with 'The leasing company' and you need to take this up with 'The leading Company' as there is nothing we can do because this process is not managed by 'Your employer"

I was under the impression that your company is the lessee/hirer of the vehicle and it will be they who have the contract with the lease company. What you have shown suggests that you have some sort of contract with the lease company, not your employer. Please correct me if I'm wrong in my assumptions.

The leasing company's "fines team" have evidenced their intellectual malnourishment in that response. You should feel at liberty to point out the following to them, in no uncertain terms:

As this was not a "fine" from an authority but an invoice from an unregulated private parking company and the liability for the invoice simply could have been transferred to the lessee/hirer as per the information in the NtK, the response from them is evidence that they are either stupid or too inexperienced to be dealing with these matters. A simple transfer of liability as advised in the NtK would have absolved them from any further liability or charges.

The PPC have no involvement in this. They have been paid and couldn't give a rats @rse about the plight of the OP. This is a contractual matter between the OP, their employer and the lease company. It would appear that the lease company acted recklessly by simply paying the charge, whether the contract with the lessee allowed them to do so or not. The lease company have a "Fines team" that are obviously stupid or simply plain ignorant about PCNs.

If the OP is a member of a union or professional association they should seek advice from them and also, if they have legal advice cover with one of their insurance policies, the should avail themselves of that. It should be legal advice from someone with experience of employment and contact law.

Thank you for the response once again. No, I have never taken out a contract with the leasing company.

We used another company when I got the car (never signed an agreement with them either) and my employer recently changed leasing company and moved all of the contracts over, a month in - they implemented this new fines process.

I'm not a member of any unions unfortunately, so it'll be on me to pick up any legal costs on this one. Feel like i've hit the end of the road and no other option.

I guess others would probably let this drop, but absolutely nothing stopping this from happening to me again (and others). Like I said, this is a huge company with one of the largest fleet of vehicles in the U.K. So it will be an absolute money spinner.
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b789

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Re: PCN Paid by Leasing Company - No right to appeal
« Reply #33 on: June 25, 2024, 05:06:44 pm »
Your dispute, for now is with your employer. They are the ones garnishing your wages. You may have to sue them for the return of the money. The complexity is how your employer and the lease company are contractually obligated to each other.

You should certainly seek legal advice. Find a suitable legal firm that specialises in employment and contract law and see if you can get a initial consultation on whether they think you have a case.
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The Rookie

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Re: PCN Paid by Leasing Company - No right to appeal
« Reply #34 on: June 26, 2024, 11:00:28 am »
Quote from: JD1905 on June 25, 2024, 03:30:55 pm
Final word from my HR team.

"There's nothing more we can do. This is part of the contract that you have taken out with 'The leasing company' and you need to take this up with 'The leading Company' as there is nothing we can do because this process is not managed by 'Your employer"
If you have definitely never signed a contract with the leasing company, then ask them to show you a copy of the signed contract (which would come from the leasing company to validate their 'claim') BEFORE they garnish your wages.
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JD1905

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Re: PCN Paid by Leasing Company - No right to appeal
« Reply #35 on: August 05, 2024, 02:10:30 pm »
I have a final update from my employer regarding this. I was deducted £75 for a £60 fine from my pay last week.


------------

Hi

As promised I have raised the issue with NI Fines with *the leasing company* and asked them to review the process for these fines.  I’ve had a call with the *the leasing company* team to discuss their findings and they have confirmed that the process has changed in NI and that they agree that once a fine has been paid there is no recourse to appeal.

Our legal contract with *the leasing company* around the management of fines is pretty simple, they must pay the fine immediately to avoid the amount increasing so adopting a different process for fines incurred in NI isn’t going to be an option at this time.

What they have agreed to do is to review any appeal they receive from a driver and if there are grounds for the fine being disputed, they will not process any deduction from a drivers pay.  If the driver still disputes the fine, but the case isn’t straight forward, *the leasing company* will escalate to *your employer* for the case to be considered and a decision made about whether the deduction should be taken from the drivers pay.

Our company car policy is very clear that colleagues will be responsible for any parking or driving related fine, so I don’t believe that any deduction from your pay will be unlawful .

I appreciate that you were hoping for a change in the process for NI fines, but at this time, the current process will remain the same.

Many thanks for your patience whilst I’ve looked into this matter.


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So - the leasing have agreed that once the fine is paid that there is no way to make an appeal, however you can appeal directly to the leasing company and they will decide if there is grounds for it to be disputed.

I'll be quite honest, that I don't plan to stay with this employer longer than the end of the year - Is it worth me getting a solicitor for the sake of what will be £200 or so, when I plan to leave the job anyway, maybe not? I'll have a think about what I do next, the process is clearly completely flawed, but with it being such a money maker for the leasing company they are unwilling to change the process.
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dave-o

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Re: PCN Paid by Leasing Company - No right to appeal
« Reply #36 on: August 05, 2024, 02:59:19 pm »
Quote from: JD1905 on August 05, 2024, 02:10:30 pm

Our company car policy is very clear that colleagues will be responsible for any parking or driving related fine, so I don’t believe that any deduction from your pay will be unlawful .


As i'm sure has been mentioned before, this isn't a fine though, it's a speculative invoice.  The are effectively saying that if they received an invoice for some goods or services that you had never agreed to purchase, they would pay for it and deduct it from your wages.  And this would be lawful!
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