Author Topic: Parking Eye - ANPR Church Car Park Patrons Only - Sale  (Read 678 times)

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Parking Eye - ANPR Church Car Park Patrons Only - Sale
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Hello All.

I would be very grateful for your advice for a PCN I recently received.

I had a hire car. The Driver was parked in a Church car park for 10 minutes and 30 seconds. The Driver had driven in off the main road to sort out the sat nav. The date of the PCN was 17th Nov 2025. The Hirer received an email from the hire car company dated 24th Nov with summary details of the PCN they received from Parking Eye, and their admin charge.

On 1st Dec the Hirer received the PCN (Issued 20th Nov and dated 27th Nov) in the post directly from Parking Eye. £100 or £60 if paid within 14 days.

When the Driver drove into the car park there was no lighting around the building at all. It was like pitch black. Sunset on this date was around 4pm. The Driver remembers one floodlight coming on driving out of the location.

Photographs of the site were taken one evening. One cannot see ANY of the signs without a torch. Whilst some signs were fixed very high on a pole, others were lower down and attached to a fence. None could be seen because there was no lighting anywhere around the car park.

There was a sign on a pole at the entrance, however, it was not seen by the Driver at the time, and the Driver did not stop there anyway as it was not safe to do so. The Driver turned left into the location and the sign was on the right side of the entrance. It does state parking is for patrons only (it specifies the times), and, it also states parking is for patrons ONLY outside of those times.

All photographs taken had to be with the night function on the camera, otherwise nothing can be seen, including the signs.

You can see from the ANPR photographs only the number plates can be seen.

So far at the time of writing it has been 16 days since the date of issue (20th Nov).

The Hirer has not received any other correspondence from Parking Eye so far, and, neither have they contacted them.

The Hirer has read POFA but is a little confused over the law regards hire cars/agreements.

Thanking you in anticipation of your advice.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2025, 04:47:05 pm by tankmania »

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Re: Parking Eye - ANPR Church Car Park Patrons Only - Sale
« Reply #2 on: »
When you received the Notice that was addressed to you from Parkingeye (not a copy of the Notice to Keeper (NtK)  addressed to the hire/lease company), did it include copies of the following documents with it?

(a) A statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement;

(b) A copy of the hire agreement; and

(c) A copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement.

I'm going to assume not, because these parking firms never do so, in breach of PoFA which means that they cannot hold the Hirer liable if the driver is not identified. However, I can see from your post that you are a bit naive about the requirement that you must never, EVER, identify the driver. Silly use of wording like "I did this or that", instead of "the driver did this or that" are the typical ways that most people proverbially blast both feet off with a single shot.

Whilst we wait to se both sides of the Notice your received (probably a Notice to Hirer (NtH)) and also the copy of the original Notice to Keeper (NtK) that you received from thew Hire firm, you should appeal ONLY in your capacity as the Hirer (there is no legal obligation on you to identify the driver to an unregulated private parking firm) with the following wording. Do not try and be clever and edit anything. Appeal verbatim:

Quote
I am the Hirer of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

As your Notice to Hirer (NtH) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the Hirer of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. Parkingeye has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The Hirer cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtH can only hold the driver liable. Parkingeye have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.

They will come back to you with some rubbish about how you must give them the drivers details, which you can simply respond with the following:

Quote
Your latest request for driver details is noted and dismissed. As the Hirer, I am under no legal obligation to identify the driver, and you are well aware of this. Continuing to pester me for information you cannot compel is a waste of both our time. Either cancel the PCN or issue a POPLA code—where your chances of success are nil.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
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Re: Parking Eye - ANPR Church Car Park Patrons Only - Sale
« Reply #4 on: »
When you received the Notice that was addressed to you from Parkingeye (not a copy of the Notice to Keeper (NtK)  addressed to the hire/lease company), did it include copies of the following documents with it?

(a) A statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement;

(b) A copy of the hire agreement; and

(c) A copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement.

I'm going to assume not, because these parking firms never do so, in breach of PoFA which means that they cannot hold the Hirer liable if the driver is not identified. However, I can see from your post that you are a bit naive about the requirement that you must never, EVER, identify the driver. Silly use of wording like "I did this or that", instead of "the driver did this or that" are the typical ways that most people proverbially blast both feet off with a single shot.

Whilst we wait to se both sides of the Notice your received (probably a Notice to Hirer (NtH)) and also the copy of the original Notice to Keeper (NtK) that you received from thew Hire firm, you should appeal ONLY in your capacity as the Hirer (there is no legal obligation on you to identify the driver to an unregulated private parking firm) with the following wording. Do not try and be clever and edit anything. Appeal verbatim:

Quote
I am the Hirer of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

As your Notice to Hirer (NtH) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the Hirer of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. Parkingeye has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The Hirer cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtH can only hold the driver liable. Parkingeye have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.

They will come back to you with some rubbish about how you must give them the drivers details, which you can simply respond with the following:

Quote
Your latest request for driver details is noted and dismissed. As the Hirer, I am under no legal obligation to identify the driver, and you are well aware of this. Continuing to pester me for information you cannot compel is a waste of both our time. Either cancel the PCN or issue a POPLA code—where your chances of success are nil.

Hello. Thank you for the time you have taken to advise me. I really appreciate it. I have edited the post. I will upload the photo's as links asap.

The Hirer has only received the PCN from Parking Eye.

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Re: Parking Eye - ANPR Church Car Park Patrons Only - Sale
« Reply #5 on: »
Then simply send the appeal as advised.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
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Re: Parking Eye - ANPR Church Car Park Patrons Only - Sale
« Reply #6 on: »
Hello All.

I would be very grateful for your advice for a PCN I recently received.

I had a hire car. The Driver was parked in a Church car park for 10 minutes and 30 seconds. The Driver had driven in off the main road to sort out the sat nav. The date of the PCN was 17th Nov 2025. The Hirer received an email from the hire car company dated 24th Nov with summary details of the PCN they received from Parking Eye, and their admin charge.

On 1st Dec the Hirer received the PCN (Issued 20th Nov and dated 27th Nov) in the post directly from Parking Eye. £100 or £60 if paid within 14 days.

When the Driver drove into the car park there was no lighting around the building at all. It was like pitch black. Sunset on this date was around 4pm. The Driver remembers one floodlight coming on driving out of the location.

Photographs of the site were taken one evening. One cannot see ANY of the signs without a torch. Whilst some signs were fixed very high on a pole, others were lower down and attached to a fence. None could be seen because there was no lighting anywhere around the car park.

There was a sign on a pole at the entrance, however, it was not seen by the Driver at the time, and the Driver did not stop there anyway as it was not safe to do so. The Driver turned left into the location and the sign was on the right side of the entrance. It does state parking is for patrons only (it specifies the times), and, it also states parking is for patrons ONLY outside of those times.

All photographs taken had to be with the night function on the camera, otherwise nothing can be seen, including the signs.

You can see from the ANPR photographs only the number plates can be seen.

So far at the time of writing it has been 16 days since the date of issue (20th Nov).

The Hirer has not received any other correspondence from Parking Eye so far, and, neither have they contacted them.

The Hirer has read POFA but is a little confused over the law regards hire cars/agreements.

Thanking you in anticipation of your advice.

I have uploaded photo's of the location, and the PCN, also an emailed letter fom the car hire company.

https://ibb.co/N2b50tw8
https://ibb.co/jPMt5JK6
https://ibb.co/NnbxL7BB
https://ibb.co/YBxJn24x
https://ibb.co/QsYMBMD
https://ibb.co/prbfw5qX
https://ibb.co/B5T8c7sr
https://ibb.co/9kYKsVKK
https://ibb.co/bgFyTvLG
https://ibb.co/ynPckgPp
https://ibb.co/Xf0vqkcS
https://ibb.co/gLwm58tS
https://ibb.co/GQwL28JC
https://ibb.co/ghXRDR8
https://ibb.co/tMhmjXvs
https://ibb.co/RGrxjXFJ
https://ibb.co/60jPrsvC
https://ibb.co/NdcVbsNf
https://ibb.co/gLrn3HHd
https://ibb.co/Gf2cd7Vj
https://ibb.co/1GwvkTH0
https://ibb.co/tMbC9mnX
https://ibb.co/ZR0kPV1f
https://ibb.co/Q7KD998b
« Last Edit: December 13, 2025, 07:35:53 am by tankmania »

Re: Parking Eye - ANPR Church Car Park Patrons Only - Sale
« Reply #7 on: »
Then simply send the appeal as advised.

Hi.

Should I wait to appeal until 28 days (it says from the date of issue/delivered date). I received a reminder from Parking Eye in the post, there is nothing different on it.Just hoping nothing else comes through as you stated re. hire agreement, etc.

Also, at this stage should I add any other factors such as the car park was unlit, and no signs were visible in the dark. Should I upload any such evidence with the appeal? If I had taken photo's without night mode on they would be no way of making anything out.

Thank you.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2025, 09:36:40 am by tankmania »

Re: Parking Eye - ANPR Church Car Park Patrons Only - Sale
« Reply #8 on: »
Hello All.

I would be very grateful for your advice for a PCN I recently received.

I had a hire car. The Driver was parked in a Church car park for 10 minutes and 30 seconds. The Driver had driven in off the main road to sort out the sat nav. The date of the PCN was 17th Nov 2025. The Hirer received an email from the hire car company dated 24th Nov with summary details of the PCN they received from Parking Eye, and their admin charge.

On 1st Dec the Hirer received the PCN (Issued 20th Nov and dated 27th Nov) in the post directly from Parking Eye. £100 or £60 if paid within 14 days.

When the Driver drove into the car park there was no lighting around the building at all. It was like pitch black. Sunset on this date was around 4pm. The Driver remembers one floodlight coming on driving out of the location.

Photographs of the site were taken one evening. One cannot see ANY of the signs without a torch. Whilst some signs were fixed very high on a pole, others were lower down and attached to a fence. None could be seen because there was no lighting anywhere around the car park.

There was a sign on a pole at the entrance, however, it was not seen by the Driver at the time, and the Driver did not stop there anyway as it was not safe to do so. The Driver turned left into the location and the sign was on the right side of the entrance. It does state parking is for patrons only (it specifies the times), and, it also states parking is for patrons ONLY outside of those times.

All photographs taken had to be with the night function on the camera, otherwise nothing can be seen, including the signs.

You can see from the ANPR photographs only the number plates can be seen.

So far at the time of writing it has been 16 days since the date of issue (20th Nov).

The Hirer has not received any other correspondence from Parking Eye so far, and, neither have they contacted them.

The Hirer has read POFA but is a little confused over the law regards hire cars/agreements.

Thanking you in anticipation of your advice.

Google Street View

https://maps.app.goo.gl/S2fi9d8SW2zeiqwt5?g_st=ac

Re: Parking Eye - ANPR Church Car Park Patrons Only - Sale
« Reply #9 on: »
Please stop "quoting" whole chunks of previous replies. They just make reading this very tedious.

Do not wait to send the initial appeal to ParkingEye. Just get it sent, using email or their web portal if necessary. What you need to get is their rejection with a POPLA code. You will use your photographic evidence for that appeal, together with the most fundamental point that you cannot be liable if the driver is not identified.

Your evidence of the state of the car park at night is very good and will come in useful later. However, please confirm that the copy of the PCN dated 27/11/2025 is actually addressed to you. Also, please confirm whether there were copies of a statement signed by or on behalf of the Enterprise to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to you under a hire agreement, a copy of the hire agreement and a copy of a statement of liability signed by you under that hire agreement.

Based on what you have described and the evidence you have gathered, your signage and lighting evidence is very strong, and it goes well beyond a typical “poor signage” argument. Even if a POPLA appeal were not successful (which can happen even where the underlying case is sound), this is exactly the sort of evidence that would cause a claimant serious difficulty in court.

The key point is not simply what the sign says in daylight, but whether any alleged contractual terms were capable of being brought to the Driver’s attention at the time. You have clear evidence that the car park was effectively unlit. It was dark by the time the vehicle entered, the area was “pitch black”, and photographs taken later show that none of the signs are visible without using a torch or night-mode camera. That is fatal to the idea of contract formation. A driver cannot accept terms that they cannot see, read, or reasonably be expected to know about. In court, a judge will look at the real-world conditions at the time, not at a neatly photographed sign taken in ideal lighting.

The ANPR images help you rather than them. They show only number plates and confirm the absence of usable lighting. There is no contemporaneous evidence from ParkingEye showing that any sign was readable at the material time. That leaves them unable to prove that the terms were adequately communicated before or during the alleged parking period.

The entrance sign point is also important. You have explained that the sign is on the right-hand side of the entrance, the Driver turned left, did not stop at the entrance, and could not safely stop there in any event. In darkness, with no lighting, that sign simply cannot be relied upon as a contractual “offer”. If the operator’s case depends on an entrance sign, they must show that it was positioned, illuminated and readable so that a driver could reasonably be expected to see and understand it. Your evidence points in the opposite direction.

There is a further structural problem for them in the wording of the sign itself. It is headed “Customer Only Car Park” and repeatedly states that parking is for Holy Family Church patrons only. That is not an open offer to the world; it is permission-based and class-restricted. In court, this supports the argument that the sign does not offer parking on terms to non-patrons at all. If there is no offer, there can be no contract. At most, they would be alleging trespass, which a private parking company has no standing to pursue as a contractual charge.

Finally, the short duration and purpose of the stop reinforces your position. The vehicle was present for just over ten minutes while the Driver sorted out sat nav directions. Even if ParkingEye tries to characterise that as “parking”, they would still have to prove that, within that brief period and in pitch-black conditions, the Driver saw, read and accepted the terms. Your photos make that proposition highly implausible.

Taken together, this is the sort of evidence that courts take seriously. POPLA can sometimes get things wrong or apply a very narrow view of signage, but a judge will assess credibility, lighting conditions, visibility and common sense. On the evidence you have, ParkingEye would be taking a significant risk by litigating. If they were stupid enough to try, they would be facing a very uncomfortable time explaining how an unlit car park, unreadable signage and a patrons-only sign could ever have formed a binding contract in the circumstances you describe.

You should also send the following to Enterprise and do not let them charge you their £35 admin fee unless they can evidence that PCNs from unregulated private parking firms fall under their "fines and penalties" clause:

Quote
Subject: Your “traffic violation/ fine/issuing authority” email re ParkingEye – incorrect, misleading, and not accepted

Dear Enterprise Traffic Violations Team,

I write as the Hirer in respect of your attachment dated 24 November 2025 (reference: [ENTERPRISE REF]) concerning an allegation by ParkingEye at Holy Family Church, Sale.

Your correspondence is riddled with inaccurate terminology and misleading statements. ParkingEye is not an “issuing authority”. This is not a “traffic violation”, “citation”, or “fine”. There is no “offence”. There is no police process. ParkingEye is an unregulated private parking firm issuing a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) which is, in plain English, a speculative invoice alleging a breach of civil contract terms on private land.

Accordingly:

1. Do not misstate liability. 

Your email asserts “we are notifying you of your liability.” That is not your determination to make, and it is plainly wrong in the context of a private parking invoice. Liability (if any) is disputed and depends on contract, signage, and evidence.

2. Stop referring to “re-issuing a fine” and “reduced amounts”. 

ParkingEye cannot “re-issue a fine”. If anything is sent to me, it would be a Notice to Hirer/PCN as part of a civil claim process, not a statutory enforcement process.

3. You have no basis to mention the Police. 

Your paragraph about “speeding offences” and responding to Police is irrelevant, inappropriate, and suggests your process is a copy-and-paste template applied without care. This matter is labelled “PARKING” and relates to ParkingEye.

4. Do not pay ParkingEye. 

To be clear: you are not authorised to make any payment to ParkingEye in my name. You must not treat a private parking invoice as if it were a penalty or fine.

5. Administration fee disputed. 

You state you “will attempt to charge the card” an administration fee of £35. I dispute that any fee is due in circumstances where you have demonstrated fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of the allegation and have provided no proper documentation. 

If you take any payment, I require (as a minimum) a full itemised justification and the precise contractual clause you rely upon, together with evidence that the clause is fair and applicable to a private parking invoice.

6. Provide documents and confirm what you have done. 

Please provide by return: 

a. A copy of the actual ParkingEye notice you received (all pages). 
b. Confirmation of the date you received it. 
c. Confirmation of exactly what you have provided to ParkingEye (and on what date). 
d. Confirmation that you have not paid ParkingEye and will not do so.

Given the above, your email will not be treated as anything other than an incompetent, generic template wrongly describing a civil parking invoice as a statutory enforcement matter. I require written confirmation within 7 days that your records have been corrected and that no payment will be made to ParkingEye.

Yours faithfully,

[HIRER NAME] 
[ADDRESS] 
[RENTAL AGREEMENT/CONTRACT NUMBER] 
[VEHICLE REG] 
[ENTERPRISE REFERENCE]
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Parking Eye - ANPR Church Car Park Patrons Only - Sale
« Reply #10 on: »
Please stop "quoting" whole chunks of previous replies. They just make reading this very tedious.
Absolutely.
I gave up with this thread for this reason.
It makes it unbelievably difficult for anyone to follow the flow of the thread and to contribute.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2025, 04:26:59 pm by jfollows »

Re: Parking Eye - ANPR Church Car Park Patrons Only - Sale
« Reply #11 on: »
Apologies to all helpful members for this. It's my first time on this forum and I'm getting confused, as sometimes I see a 'reply' button, and when I haven't seen one I selected 'quote' instead!

Now, I need to reply back to the previous message from 'b789' but I can't see a 'reply' button on the message.
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Re: Parking Eye - ANPR Church Car Park Patrons Only - Sale
« Reply #12 on: »
I have just used the huge REPLY button which appears below and above the thread. If you want to quote something, which can be useful, it can also make sense to be selective in what you’re quoting by editing the quote first.

Re: Parking Eye - ANPR Church Car Park Patrons Only - Sale
« Reply #13 on: »
I can see your reply button but still nothing under B789.

This is what I see on B789's post, top and bottom;

https://ibb.co/7JkJ1H7f

https://ibb.co/3YvtQbyz

There is a reply button under my first post.

I have a reply drafted ready to send to B789!


Re: Parking Eye - ANPR Church Car Park Patrons Only - Sale
« Reply #14 on: »
You seem to have managed to reply without quoting for this message...