Author Topic: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit  (Read 2055 times)

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Natedog

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Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
« on: August 16, 2024, 05:38:11 pm »
The driver was making an early morning delivery. They parked in the car park as they couldn’t find the business as it was dark. They left the vehicle to try and locate the business they were delivering to. They didn’t notice a camera on entry but a picture of the vehicle was taken at 01.54.34.
Is there any grounds to dispute this?

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b789

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Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2024, 07:21:33 pm »
There are plenty of grounds to dispute this. If you follow the advice you are unlikely to pay a penny to UKPC.

You need to appeal this as the keeper. Do not identify the driver. There is no legal obligation for the keeper to do so to an unregulated private parking company.

Only the unknown driver is liable. There is a flaw in the Notice to Keeper (NtK) that renders it non-compliant with PoFA which means that the known keeper cannot be liable for the charge.

PoFA paragraph 9(2)(a) specifies that the NtK must specify the period of parking to which the notice relates. There is no such "period of parking" specified in that NtK.

In order to be able to hold the known keeper liable for the charge, the NtK must fully comply with all the requirements of PoFA. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient.

UKPC signs are never compliant with PoFA or the BPA Code of Practice (CoP). If it was dark, were any signs conspicuous or easy to see? A photo of any signs in the same lighting conditions (no flash or headlights) would be useful for the POPLA appeal. Also, a clear picture of a sign containing the terms would also be useful for comparing to the "Beavis" sign to show that the charge is not adequately brought to the attention of the driver (PoFA 2(2)).

UKPC are not going to accept any appeal so you need to make a short one to them in order to get the POPLA code. Appeal with the following to UKPC:

Quote
I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, namely no period of parking is defined in the NtK as required per paragraph 9(2)(a), you are unable to hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn.

Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegations and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.

I suggest you cancel the PCN or issue me with a POPLA code.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

b789

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Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2024, 07:34:55 pm »
Having had another look at the NtK, there is another breach of the BPA CoP because the photo used in the NtK has been cropped (altered) as the timestamp is not readable.

Joint CoP 7.3(b) & 7.4 and BPA CoP 21.5a
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Natedog

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Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2024, 06:57:04 am »
Thank you so much. I will follow exactly what you said and keep you updated. Thanks again!

Natedog

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Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2024, 12:33:47 pm »
So the update on my parking ticket appeal… They have written back to me asking me to provide them with the drivers details for them to make a decision on the appeal.
They have given me 7 days to provide this information, otherwise they will just make a decision from the information provided previously.
They have also said this: Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 discusses the recovery of unpaid parking charges. It allows parking operators to hold the registered keeper liable to pay unpaid parking charges if the operator has not been provided the name and a serviceable address of the driver.

So I am guessing I should just ignore this and let them make a decision on my appeal? They also said they will only issue a POPLA code after they have made a decision.

DWMB2

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Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2024, 12:39:42 pm »
Yep, either leave them to it or remind them you won't be providing these details as you are not obliged to.

b789

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Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2024, 12:50:56 pm »
You can ignore UKPC's request for the driver’s details, as there is indeed no legal obligation for you to identify the driver. Their claim about Schedule 4 of PoFA is misleading because they can only hold the keeper liable if they have fully complied with all the requirements set out in PoFA, which you’ve already noted they have not done (particularly regarding the lack of a defined period of parking in the NtK).

Waiting for their rejection and the POPLA code is the better course of action. If you do want to respond, you can highlight their intellectual malnourishment. Here's a suggested response you could use:

Quote
Subject: Response to Your Request for Driver's Details

Dear UKPC,

Thank you for your letter dated [insert date]. As you are well aware and I would like to reiterate, that as the registered keeper, I am under no legal obligation to provide the details of the driver, and I will not be doing so.

You have referred to Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA); however, you seem to have overlooked or completely failed to comprehend the fact, that to hold the keeper liable, you must meet ALL the conditions laid out in PoFA, which, as I previously pointed out, your Notice to Keeper fails to do. Partial or even substantial compliance is insufficient, and therefore you will not be able to rely on PoFA to pursue the registered keeper.

Please get on with it and either cancel this PCN or provide a POPLA code so that I can escalate it to POPLA, and if necessary, to a court claim, issued either through your own failed "legal department" or through your preferred bulk litigator, DCB Legal, and you already know, when defended robustly, will eventually be discontinued.

Yours faithfully,
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Natedog

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Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2024, 12:57:28 pm »
Hahaha! Thanks I will definitely be using that response!

Natedog

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Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2024, 11:40:35 am »
So just as was predicted, my appeal has failed so now I will proceed with an appeal to POPLA. Is there any advice you guys can give me going forward. Thanks.

b789

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Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2024, 11:42:30 am »
SO, on what basis did they reject your appeal?
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Natedog

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Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2024, 11:44:50 am »
Dear Mr……….   ,
Thank you for your recent communication concerning parking charge reference…..
We have carefully considered your appeal based on the information provided and the evidence supporting the parking charge. In this instance having
completed our assessment, we consider the parking charge to have been correctly issued, as the vehicle was parked on site without displaying a valid
permit.
Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 discusses the recovery of unpaid parking charges. It allows parking operators to hold the registered
keeper liable to pay unpaid parking charges if the operator has not been provided the name and a serviceable address of the driver.
Entrance signage advises motorists that terms of parking apply, and that notices within the car park should be checked to identify the full terms and
conditions. These notices are numerous and placed appropriately throughout the car park. It is ultimately the responsibility of the motorist to ensure they
identify the terms of parking, and then decide whether to park their vehicle, or leave the site if they are unable to meet those terms.
We would also contend that when a motorist enters a car park they should be at the same level of observance as when driving on a public road; When
driving on the road, motorists are expected to be aware of signs when travelling at up to 70mph. In a car park, the typical driving speed is on average, much
lower. We therefore contend that it is not unreasonable to expect a motorist to note the signs and to subsequently familiarise themselves with these.
It is UKPC’s position that the signage installed on site is more than sufficient to bring the terms and conditions to the attention of any motorist, both in the
clarity of information contained within it, as well as the number of appropriately placed signs on site, that a legally binding contract is formed between the
motorist and the party offering that contract.
Our appeals process is now concluded, you may now choose one of the following options:
1) Pay the parking charge detailed above at the reduced rate of £60.00 to UK Parking Control Ltd. PLEASE REFER OVERLEAF FOR PAYMENT OPTIONS
AND ADDRESS DETAILS.
2) Make an appeal to the independent adjudicator POPLA (Parking on Private Land Appeals) using the verification code provided above. Please note that if
you wish to appeal to POPLA, you will lose the right to pay the discounted rate of £60.00, and should POPLA reject your appeal you will be required to pay
the full amount of £100.00. If you opt to pay the parking charge you will be unable to appeal with POPLA. Appeals to POPLA must be made within
twenty-eight days from the date of this letter. To appeal with POPLA, please visit www.popla.co.uk. If you are unable to access the internet, you may
appeal by post – this must be done using a POPLA postal form which may be obtained by contacting POPLA by phone (0330 159 6126) or post (PO Box
1270, Warrington, WA4 9RL).
By law we are also required to inform you that Ombudsman Services (www.ombudsman-services.org/) provides an alternative dispute resolution service
that would be competent to deal with your appeal. However, we have not chosen to participate in their alternative dispute resolution service. As such
should you wish to appeal then you must do so to POPLA, as explained above.
3) If you choose to do nothing the parking charge will automatically increase after thirty-five days from the date of this letter to £100.00 and the matter
will be passed to our debt recovery agent, at which point you will be liable to pay an additional charge of £70, in accordance with the terms and conditions
of parking, and further charges will be claimed if court action is taken against you. Any unpaid court judgement may adversely affect your credit rating.
Yours sincerely,
Appeals Department
UK Parking Control Limit

Natedog

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Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2024, 11:57:15 am »
Luckily, I have a job today which takes me to the location of the car park, and I am going to video the site along with taking pictures of the signage. Hopefully this will help support my appeal to POPLA.
I am guessing that my main reason for appeal is the fact they didn’t give any time for the signage to be read? Am I correct?

b789

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Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2024, 12:43:32 pm »
The NtK does not specify the "period of parking" as required by PoFA. Also, the signs are the usual UKPC rubbish with the terms hidden in a wall of tiny text and the charge for breaching terms also hidden in there, another breach of PoFA whereby the signs should adequately bring to the attention of the driver, the charge for breaching any terms.

The location in the NtK is ambiguous in that the industrial estate is huge and there is no evidence of where on this estate the alleged breach occurred. As can be seen in GSV, there are entire areas with no signage whatsoever:



So, on that basis alone, the PCN is not compliant with ALL the requirement of PoFA to be able to hold the keeper liable.

Also, the signs are prohibitory and therefore no contract could possibly be formed. Without any "period of parking" defined, there is no evidence that the BPA CoP has been followed with regard to consideration period.



All this will go into a POPLA appeal.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2024, 12:51:31 pm by b789 »
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

b789

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Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2024, 01:09:24 pm »
Here is a suggested outline for a POPLA appeal. It can be revised and any photos that can be provided will be added if they help the appeal.

Can you please show on Google maps exactly where in the estate the vehicle was when the driver went to find directions?

Quote
I am appealing as the registered keeper of the vehicle against the parking charge notice issued by UK Parking Control Ltd (UKPC). The grounds for my appeal are outlined below, supported by multiple failings in the Notice to Keeper (NtK) and the supporting evidence provided by UKPC. The PCN has been incorrectly issued based on the following grounds:

1. Failure to Comply with Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) - No Period of Parking Specified

The Notice to Keeper (NtK) issued by UKPC does not comply with PoFA 2012, Schedule 4, Paragraph 9(2)(a), which mandates that the NtK MUST specify the period of parking. The NtK only provides a single timestamp (01:54:34) but fails to indicate the duration or period during which the vehicle was allegedly parked.

Without this information, the NtK does not meet the statutory conditions necessary to hold the keeper liable. UKPC cannot transfer liability to the keeper when their NtK does not comply with PoFA, and as such, the charge must be cancelled.

2. Inadequate and Non-Compliant Signage – No Contract Formed & PoFA Failure

UKPC claims that their signage is clear and prominent, citing an absurd comparison in their rejection letter to road signs that motorists are expected to read at 70 mph. This argument is not only irrelevant but laughable in the context of a car park, where signage must be legible and sufficiently prominent at low speeds or even while stationary.

a) Hidden Terms and Conditions: The only prominent wording on the sign is "NO UNAUTHORISED PARKING." All other crucial information, including the terms of parking and the parking charge, is hidden in a wall of small text, making it impossible for any driver to reasonably read or understand the contract they are purportedly agreeing to. The wording "NO UNAUTHORISED PARKING" on the sign is prohibitory in nature. A prohibitory sign cannot form the basis of a contract because it offers no invitation to park under any terms. Instead, it acts as a deterrent, merely stating that parking is not permitted. For a contract to be valid and enforceable, there must be an offer, consideration, and acceptance, none of which can occur with a prohibitory notice.

As a result, this type of signage cannot be used to form a contractual agreement, and no breach of terms could have occurred. Therefore, no parking charge can be enforced based on this inadequate and non-compliant signage.

b) Non-compliance with BPA Code of Practice: The BPA Code of Practice mandates that parking terms and charges must be clearly visible and easy to read. In this case, the signage does not meet these standards, as the essential terms (including the £100 charge for breach) are obscured within tiny text, and the clarity of the signage is insufficient to form any contract with a motorist.

c) PoFA Non-compliance: This failure to clearly (adequately) bring to the attention of the driver the sum of the parking charge for breaching terms also constitutes a failure to comply with PoFA 2012, Schedule 4, Paragraph 9(2)(d). PoFA mandates that the amount due must be clearly communicated. As UKPC has failed to adequately highlight this, no valid contract was formed, and UKPC cannot hold the keeper liable.

Given these facts, no legally binding contract was formed between the driver and UKPC, as the signage fails to communicate the parking terms adequately.

3. Ambiguity of Location – NtK Fails to Specify Exact Location

The NtK is vague and fails to specify the exact location within Uplands Business Park where the vehicle was allegedly parked. This business park is a large industrial estate, with numerous areas, many of which are entirely unsignposted. Without specifying the exact location, it is impossible for UKPC to claim a valid parking contravention occurred at a specific point.

a) PoFA Non-Compliance: Under PoFA 2012, Schedule 4, the relevant land must be specified. The general mention of Uplands Business Park does not meet the requirement for specifying the relevant land, and therefore the NtK is not compliant.

b) Multiple Unsigned Areas: Given that some areas within the estate have no signage whatsoever, it is entirely possible that the vehicle was parked in a location without any displayed terms. This further erodes the credibility of UKPC's claim and their assertion that the driver was bound by any parking terms.

4. UKPC Must Provide Strict Proof of Driver Identity

Since I am appealing as the registered keeper, and no admission has been made regarding the identity of the driver, UKPC is required to provide strict proof that the person they are pursuing is indeed the driver.

UKPC has not provided any evidence that identifies the driver, nor can any assumptions or inferences be made under PoFA 2012. In the absence of such proof, the charge must be cancelled, as UKPC cannot demonstrate that the keeper and driver are the same individual.

5. Consideration Period – Ability to Locate and Understand Signage

In their rejection of my initial appeal, UKPC claimed that their signage was sufficient and that motorists should have the same level of "observance" in a car park as they do on public roads at high speeds. This claim is not only baseless but also demonstrates UKPC’s lack of understanding of the BPA Code of Practice.

a) Time to Find and Read Signs: The BPA Code of Practice clearly requires that motorists be given an appropriate amount of time to find the signage, read it, and understand the terms before any contract can be assumed to have been formed. This is referred to as a consideration period. In this instance, there was no adequate signage visible upon entry, and even where signs are placed, the terms are not legible due to their size and poor placement.

b) Inadequate Signage in Low Light Conditions: The alleged contravention occurred in the early morning, in darkness, which would make it even more difficult for any motorist to read and understand the terms displayed on UKPC’s signs. No consideration period was allowed for the driver to locate, read, and comprehend the small-font, densely worded signage.

Conclusion

In summary, the parking charge must be cancelled due to the following reasons:

• The NtK is non-compliant with PoFA 2012 due to the absence of a period of parking and the failure to specify the exact location of the alleged contravention.
No contract was formed because the signage was inadequate, non-compliant with the BPA Code of Practice, and failed to clearly communicate the parking terms.
• The failure to bring the sum of the charge for breaching terms to the attention of the driver constitutes another PoFA 2012 failure.
• UKPC has provided no evidence identifying the driver, and no assumptions can be made under PoFA about the keeper being the driver.
• The consideration period required to locate and understand the signage was not provided.

I suggest that POPLA upholds this appeal and cancels the PCN.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2024, 01:12:18 pm by b789 »
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

DWMB2

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Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2024, 01:32:53 pm »
I'd be minded to add to point #1 - in these sort of cases taken by a warden, you often see 2 photos taken some time apart, to prove that the vehicle was there for longer than the relevant consideration period. In this case there only appears to be 1 photo, so they seemingly haven't demonstrated that the car was there for more than 5 minutes.